IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [homenet] I-D Action: draft-ietf-homenet-dot-10.txt

Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> Tue, 01 August 2017 18:02 UTC

Return-Path: <mellon@fugue.com>
X-Original-To: homenet@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: homenet@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 274EB1321DB for <homenet@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 11:02:48 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.6
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gIFplHnFEKPZ for <homenet@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 11:02:46 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-qk0-x230.google.com (mail-qk0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 37DEE1321CD for <homenet@ietf.org>; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 11:02:46 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-qk0-x230.google.com with SMTP id z18so13672340qka.4 for <homenet@ietf.org>; Tue, 01 Aug 2017 11:02:46 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=03fVkNVqjQ9Z7xSz1ID2jrq7M3u2dhdHYDr+upvj+Jw=; b=E0/KJG85hBVfJs1jnQ7tQ/9Jh97GroqmX10Y4lPHWOHCkwGT1+J3PEn7qM3CUA0nQX vnEzTWRe8tCLVY2uV8Rtyj8jOwh2iNbqHHmAAz5ibrM+4icydXjQO/Yu+edj6xK30oDd yW/Jkp1dzxlmOoYCuaSzvZYlw4LB7H6tafIdZrE1zZHcWyUdFKV3/OtKicTlj2ynDFom 70S65+xcPDWWRhQEn6RtCYwsIOioY+f6bLySQTTrqNHWVwlVjsh61UOvR0jk5gpfTF1O TMI2k7bO5SsxafIEMBQhliWl1Y8dKNvpW7L891Ol8e3+CbbhaMxWmJmj2UDWSrVCcF9/ Idbg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=03fVkNVqjQ9Z7xSz1ID2jrq7M3u2dhdHYDr+upvj+Jw=; b=pEcb/DEr4nilcitLLT0cM+P8V7OqoIJa4EJr/kzyQj0W0mhI11OsYTCq9l3mtfTJqZ SgnHixz+cbFx/1+YsDEx54VRrS44ycBBeC1Emgwk3FHSHMD60bq0aTJeh0ZXT3C8M45N BIvD/7fpe3LtxvENa6jZdzd7Gf4cEc0UoulzHWx3DB76ZJFUpSChajk1oTKimDpA2TJ4 Vq4lzF8RnYhjEn+kqXI1hHn7UluGQS1AdtpXF8RZpst+6ZwZSPpi3RON/F+CoFQNNo3M aNsOFcf/CpGoPUGnyVpaTQ+1saXzsr/8r7u0iEJvtm8OAoB9wybvNfhkdacBA/c5Q7r9 +H0g==
X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw112CFN3xMpeFb5hO25MWqqGPnMQJYhv7TdEsvKaRsWvpHd4iDWKg AWYYvaOt1iyJhuq5
X-Received: by 10.55.115.132 with SMTP id o126mr25475797qkc.130.1501610565397; Tue, 01 Aug 2017 11:02:45 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [10.0.30.153] (c-73-167-64-188.hsd1.nh.comcast.net. [73.167.64.188]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 55sm3301219qtm.51.2017.08.01.11.02.44 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 01 Aug 2017 11:02:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Message-Id: <E4DA3327-CACA-40B1-828D-6335B57B25C1@fugue.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_CBA4937B-38C9-4872-A681-8C30B1E86168"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\))
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 14:02:43 -0400
In-Reply-To: <7ilgn3xkfe.wl-jch@irif.fr>
Cc: "homenet@ietf.org" <homenet@ietf.org>
To: Juliusz Chroboczek <jch@irif.fr>
References: <150127266271.25329.18484770769960144@ietfa.amsl.com> <597F7545.9000702@mathemainzel.info> <E51998F5-8EF9-4FC8-90BE-1D0BF1805339@fugue.com> <b562a9fd0ce2d8af63109aac47d1d47a.1501567308@squirrel.mail> <757C1755-AD78-43DE-93F0-E3D19BFE6C66@fugue.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6114DBE4251@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> <3A5D69EE-3F32-4773-90ED-D189E7523D9F@fugue.com> <7ilgn3xkfe.wl-jch@irif.fr>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/homenet/wnfMoaZdHRMalDwSXLL5NCxGoP0>
Subject: Re: [homenet] I-D Action: draft-ietf-homenet-dot-10.txt
X-BeenThere: homenet@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Homenet WG mailing list <homenet.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/homenet>, <mailto:homenet-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/homenet/>
List-Post: <mailto:homenet@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:homenet-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/homenet>, <mailto:homenet-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 18:02:48 -0000

On Aug 1, 2017, at 1:33 PM, Juliusz Chroboczek <jch@irif.fr> wrote:
> Agreed.  The problem, of course, is not Homenet-specific -- I've got
> exactly the same problem with my printer, or with Babelweb.  The problem,
> in short, is that HTTP doesn't allow either BTN or TOFU security -- it's
> either creartext of CA-based (or big red warning).

Yup.

> I think that Barbara expressed very clearly why the CA model is simply not
> adapted to the Homenet.  I don't think we should be complicating the
> Homenet protocol stack in order to work around the limitations of the
> browser stack.

Best is the enemy of good enough.   Also, you routinely overestimate how complicated this stuff is.   I appreciate that you value simplicity, but the rule I prefer to follow is: "make it as simple as possible, and no simpler."

The bottom line is that a global delegation+ACME PKI is a knob I can turn.   Fixing browsers is a knob I can't turn, and the browser vendors have spoken pretty unequivocally on this topic.   If you want to tilt at that windmill, I will gladly lend my voice, but I am not hopeful.

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email