Re: [hrpc] FCC's new Internet regulatory gambit and human rights

Tony Rutkowski <trutkowski.netmagic@gmail.com> Thu, 28 March 2024 15:21 UTC

Return-Path: <trutkowski.netmagic@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31BB9C14F71B for <hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Mar 2024 08:21:44 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -7.096
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WGTJklkyptp6 for <hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Mar 2024 08:21:39 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-qk1-x72a.google.com (mail-qk1-x72a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72a]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4B3B5C14F6AD for <hrpc@irtf.org>; Thu, 28 Mar 2024 08:21:39 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-qk1-x72a.google.com with SMTP id af79cd13be357-789e209544eso54067385a.0 for <hrpc@irtf.org>; Thu, 28 Mar 2024 08:21:39 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1711639298; x=1712244098; darn=irtf.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:content-language:references :cc:to:subject:reply-to:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id:from :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=6QOflPDI3/Vx78iGWHehjsYb4Lr+3E/t/KMKNe5mijc=; b=EuXHIV4dd2xnhy/FUBrnlq4IUWbi6ZnwqwZqRMPyEMYKd8H6gImLcQXYJacGex54AE Jy455UxwzaGb/JyJkpLKvDKaLXG6BipPPNTqUaZYK9LI46InepfyBD7pAkTPWRTb+p/L gdjutC+Zq/xuYFfqG2yYJSZmVgf4xRkB0cGoj5bDom8fsUQUg0ffEENy92F1TlCNTMUl tu+tMWVRdLYnVOi78iM38GBfAHChX92opFVo8lxz56T44B4TmkuHEEScmBaHuBwtVPFl ErEbgJt3zSu1jSva/nd3dVhbLKDbPTx7b3WoIQY9v6ST1b9vg+D+qpf8GkTSKrDeh9Jo c1PQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1711639298; x=1712244098; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:content-language:references :cc:to:subject:reply-to:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id:from :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=6QOflPDI3/Vx78iGWHehjsYb4Lr+3E/t/KMKNe5mijc=; b=mj/2e6k0WGcT2hmsAyDitIqpbWN34U/41dK6ztnyFy9v3I0KfN/ew+LaH5f55gPrRJ aG92x5rjWOu+UnbQKVGmwlSjcWs9tsNLEX+gk/cV7I7C/Yy3a3W0qYLDviSSS4D7RZqq l6jA0Txl+xF2UFV8OtoVLfIsktZ5Xv2gMMziwueWKRNpmjFCyAeWkh/5HopPseq0Hb+a tmsE+aDyANq1J2COYYrxL1N/nphJVN/LGc2frzl4o6Sg+7kid1nE6nuIdkwt05GqTYTH /0K6r0xMXzON4Xm3Rbwl596Q3Y/Zdpse4TfaHA8u1IuNJmv4XqzEFtymC7ByCFugepgN 6y3g==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yw7dixM70fqlgogtVlpdBDUjuhy1KosS+jaWo61lgK0umaKwQwy J/NmK2BoyOGF6BqQxsmtFrZMNum0LFiDC1ivajLIGL1aeoTP0Kj1
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHBAh0GDqGgbFO2O+y2aghOtUruxjZhnEkCm8pPmk754B4qondGpXK7hWRPXjAgLsXe/id+LA==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:394a:b0:789:edde:4d39 with SMTP id qs10-20020a05620a394a00b00789edde4d39mr3761170qkn.40.1711639297862; Thu, 28 Mar 2024 08:21:37 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.1.249] (pool-70-106-222-156.clppva.fios.verizon.net. [70.106.222.156]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w16-20020a05620a095000b00789f64ec397sm598778qkw.97.2024.03.28.08.21.37 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 28 Mar 2024 08:21:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tony Rutkowski <trutkowski.netmagic@gmail.com>
X-Google-Original-From: Tony Rutkowski <trutkowski@netmagic.com>
Message-ID: <b586a69f-4dfb-4473-93a2-b525b7b89937@netmagic.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2024 11:21:37 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Reply-To: trutkowski@netmagic.com
To: Vittorio Bertola <vittorio.bertola=40open-xchange.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, rutkowski.tony@gmail.com
Cc: hrpc@irtf.org
References: <659E347E-B474-4CD7-A41E-394BC5B99285@mnot.net> <110ee2ad-fbd4-4917-9464-4fd3e0511d6e@andersdotter.cc> <D216AB41-DE37-4747-A5B1-33B70C121F78@mnot.net> <4ed43236-6061-4d57-aa26-fc9e8b13d499@andersdotter.cc> <CABcZeBMZy0jVDpJpG_vo6DY0KvVN22+GKCyNOPf+0O3NJCU9Sg@mail.gmail.com> <333c35f8-ec94-4cd9-a201-e4e223baf664@andersdotter.cc> <CAGVFjM+=nk+WDy1oPHfr0dK5z7ppEdXbebHSwa06tJRiZLEGhg@mail.gmail.com> <38f5d8a0-86c9-4e26-a75d-0c37615597dc@andersdotter.cc> <9346223d-d0b7-487b-a566-c6464aa31a07@gmail.com> <1633729151.141406.1711637681285@appsuite-gw2.open-xchange.com>
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <1633729151.141406.1711637681285@appsuite-gw2.open-xchange.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/hrpc/YN9pzO7-UgSScipH8Es-uIgOT90>
Subject: Re: [hrpc] FCC's new Internet regulatory gambit and human rights
X-BeenThere: hrpc@irtf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: hrpc discussion list <hrpc.irtf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://mailman.irtf.org/mailman/options/hrpc>, <mailto:hrpc-request@irtf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/hrpc/>
List-Post: <mailto:hrpc@irtf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:hrpc-request@irtf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://mailman.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hrpc>, <mailto:hrpc-request@irtf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2024 15:21:44 -0000

Hi Vittorio,

It is indeed a certification scheme.  It is important to encourage 
software development and deployment best practices to minimise risk.  
FIRST and the related communities have been doing this for the past 30 
years.

How this is done is the concern. Enormously complicated and costly 
bureaucratic regulatory schemes promulgated by government agencies 
driven by political objectives with criminal penalties are not useful.  
Outright banning of providers because of their origins or routing of 
traffic is known as xenophobia. Implementing the schemes on through 
closed processes that require enormous resources and standards purchases 
costing thousands of Euros to participate contravene most human rights 
acts.  Requiring costly recertification every time software or 
processing is updated will result a reduction in patching - which is 
already occurring in some sectors.  Harmonising the regulations globally 
is almost impossible and a barrier to entry, innovation, and "software 
expressions."  Perhaps most significantly, continuing good user "cyber 
hygiene" combined with establishing risk appetite is even more essential 
to reducing risk.

Packaging this all under "INTERNET FREEDOM" seems tantamount to cyber 
fraud.  But, please read what is inside! You can just click and download 
(except if you want to know about surveillance, that will cost you 155 
Swiss Francs. :-)

--tony



On 3/28/2024 10:54 AM, Vittorio Bertola wrote:
>
>> Il 28/03/2024 15:05 CET Tony Rutkowski <rutkowski.tony@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>>
>>   
>> https://circleid.com/posts/20240327-the-fcc-cyber-trust-label-gambit-part-ii
>>
>> HPRC and the IETF might wish to weigh in on this gambit - incredulously
>> promulgated under a regulatory section called "Internet Freedom."  It
>> rather makes a mockery of the phrase.
>>
>> Note the FCC delegation of surveillance authority to private "CLAs"
>> based on vague references to a CFR 155 ISO/IEC standard. That's
>> remarkable non-transparency.  There are enough human rights abridgements
>> here to write a book.
> I don't know what is inside this regulation, but by trying to extract the facts from the prose of the article you link, it looks like a self-certification scheme of adherence to a set of security best practices, similar to the regime just introduced in Europe by the CRA but with a more limited scope (the European regulation also applies to pure software and not just to connected devices).
>
> We - meaning, the open source industry including anything from SMEs to the Linux Foundation - just came out of a 1-year interaction with the European Commission on the CRA. We managed to make it substantially better than the first draft, yet the regulators were firm on the fact that Internet software and devices are now a vital industry, and much like you can't distribute (not even for free) a car or a hairdryer to European customers without appropriate security certifications (the CE mark), you shouldn't be allowed to distribute insecure software.
>
> We tried to play the card of "software as literature / as a form of free expression" but we were sort of laughed at. This is now a multi-billion euro industry and a bug in key software libraries (even volunteer-based, open source ones) can bring the entire society to a halt. The risk of underfunded, volunteer-based software projects used at large scale is just not socially bearable any more, they think; someone must take liability for their security, which needs to be based on some kind of standard practices (the EU ones will now be developed by CEN-CENELEC). On the other hand, we succeeded in making this a self-certification requirement for almost any type of software.
>
> It looks like most countries around the world will follow suit under the same approach.
>