[hrpc] Diverse participation (and the lack thereof) was: I-D Action: draft-irtf-hrpc-political-03.txt

[Niels ten Oever <[e-mail]>]

Is hrpc the right venue for this discussion though? Might fit better in IAB or GEN AREA ? I don't want to get hrpc (and its chairs) into trouble (again). 

Cheers,

Niels

On 7/12/19 1:29 PM, Ciavaglia, Laurent (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay) wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> It's an interesting discussion.
> To Niels point on a "IETF/IRTF participation draft":
>  - Should the evolution (and relative pervasiveness) of collaboration technologies/means/practices also be factored in?
>  - For the participation from academics, I could share some experience and limited analysis on why some researchers participate, or don't or stop to. IETF and IRTF have different implications.
> 
> --Laurent.
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: hrpc <[e-mail]> On Behalf Of Eliot Lear
>> Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 13:09
>> To: Niels ten Oever <[e-mail]>
>> Cc: [e-mail]
>> Subject: Re: [hrpc] I-D Action: draft-irtf-hrpc-political-03.txt
>>
>> Ok, it’s fair enough to not have to cram everything in one draft.  I must
>> admit my own concern about our self-selective tendencies, not simply
>> because the disadvantage new entrants, but because it will limit our
>> relevance over time.
>>
>> Eliot
>>
>>> On 12 Jul 2019, at 13:04, Niels ten Oever <[e-mail]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Signed PGP part
>>> Hi Elliot,
>>>
>>> On 7/12/19 12:10 PM, Eliot Lear wrote:
>>>> Hi Niels
>>>>
>>>>> On 12 Jul 2019, at 11:26, Niels ten Oever <[e-mail]
>> <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Many people in the IETF are convinced that the meetings are not
>> intended to bring in new people, this actually has become an official non-
>> goal in the meeting venue selection process per draft-ietf-mtgvenue-iaoc-
>> venue-selection-process and draft-krishnan-ietf-meeting-policy. The
>> current consensus seems to be that participating in the IETF is not
>> dependent of physical participation, but can also be done through
>> mailinglists and remote tools.
>>>>
>>>> As the editor of draft-ietf-mtgvenue-iaoc-venue-selection-process, I
>> don’t think you should shy away in your research from challenging that
>> where, in your view, the IETF may have erred.
>>>
>>> Don't worry, I will ;)
>>>
>>>  Whatever consensus the IETF has can change based on well reasoned
>> argument, and the IRTF is expected to provide that.  Maybe not
>> immediately, and maybe not without other precipitating factors that either
>> don’t exist today or are not yet readily apparent, but this is really the
>> only way change happens.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I think the the issue of participation would benefit from its own draft.
>> Ideally it could show several trends:
>>>
>>> - consolidation
>>> 	-  total number of participants/draft authors/RFC
>> authors/mailinglist contributors is affiliated to a low number of
>> organizations
>>> - academic exodus
>>> 	- decreasing number of participants/draft authors/RFC
>> authors/mailinglist contributors is affiliated with an academic
>> institution
>>> - geographical representation
>>> - diversity
>>>
>>> and seek to explain to the data and trends, and ideally also provide
>> recommendations.
>>>
>>> I do personally not think it would be helpful to add this to draft-irtf-
>> hrpc-political, but it could indeed be a follow-up draft. I would be happy
>> to support the writing of that with quantitative mailinglist analysis.
>>>
>>> I could also imagine this being part of this draft though:
>>>
>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-arkko-iab-internet-consolidation-02
>>>
>>> Where it might have more impact than in hrpc.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Niels
>>>
>>>
>>>> Eliot
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Niels ten Oever
>>> Researcher and PhD Candidate
>>> DATACTIVE Research Group
>>> University of Amsterdam
>>>
>>> PGP fingerprint	   2458 0B70 5C4A FD8A 9488
>>>                   643A 0ED8 3F3A 468A C8B3
>>>
>>>
>>>
> 

-- 
Niels ten Oever
Researcher and PhD Candidate
DATACTIVE Research Group
University of Amsterdam

PGP fingerprint	   2458 0B70 5C4A FD8A 9488  
                   643A 0ED8 3F3A 468A C8B3