Re: HTTP2 server-side stream creation

Cory Benfield <cory@lukasa.co.uk> Mon, 13 July 2015 08:25 UTC

Return-Path: <ietf-http-wg-request+bounce-httpbisa-archive-bis2juki=lists.ie@listhub.w3.org>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 156171AD35A for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 01:25:38 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.29
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.29 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XQBfxos8pzKR for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 01:25:37 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EB6F11ACE89 for <httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 01:25:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <ietf-http-wg-request@listhub.w3.org>) id 1ZEZ0I-0000cx-JA for ietf-http-wg-dist@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 08:22:22 +0000
Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 08:22:22 +0000
Resent-Message-Id: <E1ZEZ0I-0000cx-JA@frink.w3.org>
Received: from lisa.w3.org ([128.30.52.41]) by frink.w3.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <cory@lukasa.co.uk>) id 1ZEZ0F-0000cC-F6 for ietf-http-wg@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 08:22:19 +0000
Received: from mail-pd0-f174.google.com ([209.85.192.174]) by lisa.w3.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:RSA_ARCFOUR_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <cory@lukasa.co.uk>) id 1ZEZ0D-00006R-Ij for ietf-http-wg@w3.org; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 08:22:18 +0000
Received: by pdbqm3 with SMTP id qm3so76431093pdb.0 for <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 01:21:51 -0700 (PDT)
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=F00EYVazBdwKN9FTAUz7J6IGO0ei4hrpytX18LxysJM=; b=JvEAc/LSIoPwaaPQnCaWFza3XR4mLD1+e2LK4wX/vFGP5vzY4FQoy4nlrMQ2uZxsJZ 9jV5AITxi92n4/6WRFRyQ/aN8ivlgHUmnDu3P0YZQ7ayRNeOQSfN5emRaDn4BDd78uG/ d1W2pTw/0FUrXr9Jc7LhpxlrrYZrSAVBU6sZfRO1sJ7ZUCYsS4zE5qR38133EWVTEoA3 lNxj6h4vGYJx93hFgT1P5KqWOLO1JuonR5BZ8hRluTJX8Xk0bKns1+mWzdBXkdD4vnBU jcLMg2f1ZyMLGMgmUyu0PiFV4RO5biUSJkgyvsit/vwQVHCR0H9MuzZetCHChKbBSpRM V8/Q==
X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmZIyxxAdxBjLAK5YXUJCYfBZp512aABDboy/kfPE0DMGGUDRgCxS68CbFvzIjBC6hg4C71
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.66.255.67 with SMTP id ao3mr66603519pad.60.1436775711039; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 01:21:51 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.66.152.164 with HTTP; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 01:21:50 -0700 (PDT)
X-Originating-IP: [2620:104:4001:72:a1f2:9ef6:21c:16b]
In-Reply-To: <91BE1A60-4ABF-403B-B678-357AB12682DF@greenbytes.de>
References: <CAEfxk=uOpnU5Q_XXNZTw_Rr8VAD86dqWYDhRJW2mg5+E1jmvRw@mail.gmail.com> <39FF53D5-25BE-4418-B7BD-C1E512166660@lukasa.co.uk> <2B54CD64-BD75-4EEC-9F19-D3B8887BCA3E@greenbytes.de> <CAH_hAJFGJUAnyHpprRFAhJaw=ePVCCBQpxv3DzQNUdKGRnKKpA@mail.gmail.com> <559FB560.5030205@treenet.co.nz> <CAH_hAJEnqBCSpr9BkeX0waPMxSR_w7jjpJmBeYy5SJ16F6p2tg@mail.gmail.com> <55A00784.80205@treenet.co.nz> <6A1C495E-6AE1-455D-9981-EEA8B9336DCF@lukasa.co.uk> <E958000F-FDF9-41B5-A1ED-60B7BE772963@greenbytes.de> <176309E8-2989-4A58-8BAF-850C76EA2CC9@lukasa.co.uk> <91BE1A60-4ABF-403B-B678-357AB12682DF@greenbytes.de>
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 09:21:50 +0100
Message-ID: <CAH_hAJEdFOeVtEaeBxM4UkR9g1U8fVBDW_B4bUvr4zQ3shwunQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: Cory Benfield <cory@lukasa.co.uk>
To: Stefan Eissing <stefan.eissing@greenbytes.de>
Cc: Amos Jeffries <squid3@treenet.co.nz>, "ietf-http-wg@w3.org" <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Received-SPF: pass client-ip=209.85.192.174; envelope-from=cory@lukasa.co.uk; helo=mail-pd0-f174.google.com
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.3
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Report: AWL=-0.675, BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, W3C_AA=-1, W3C_WL=-1
X-W3C-Scan-Sig: lisa.w3.org 1ZEZ0D-00006R-Ij a516a0f2abf020e7d1ef88a1955bde7a
X-Original-To: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Subject: Re: HTTP2 server-side stream creation
Archived-At: <http://www.w3.org/mid/CAH_hAJEdFOeVtEaeBxM4UkR9g1U8fVBDW_B4bUvr4zQ3shwunQ@mail.gmail.com>
Resent-From: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
X-Mailing-List: <ietf-http-wg@w3.org> archive/latest/29940
X-Loop: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Resent-Sender: ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org
Precedence: list
List-Id: <ietf-http-wg.w3.org>
List-Help: <http://www.w3.org/Mail/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org?subject=unsubscribe>

On 13 July 2015 at 09:07, Stefan Eissing <stefan.eissing@greenbytes.de> wrote:
> So, the issue remains with server-initiated streams to define what they exactly connect against. In the case of special data backend server connections, this might be clear by the configuration of it, so outside of protocol context. And for that it is useful, no doubt. For it to work in the wild net, something is missing, I think.

Yeah, I think that's the question: if the client says "Hey, you can
send me requests too, I'm authority foo.bar", what reason does the
server have to trust that statement? It might be possible to do some
fun stuff with TLS client certificates here, but it'd be nice if we
had a plaintext solution too.

Maybe it's enough to say that the server MUST have some out-of-band
reason to believe the client is validly representing that authority,
and suggest some options. Those options could be TLS client certs,
service discovery mechanisms, reverse DNS, etc.