Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly web
Amos Jeffries <squid3@treenet.co.nz> Sun, 29 July 2012 22:20 UTC
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Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 10:18:26 +1200
From: Amos Jeffries <squid3@treenet.co.nz>
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Subject: Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly web
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On 30.07.2012 08:14, Henrik Frystyk Nielsen wrote: > Dear All, > > > > We remain committed to the HTTP/2.0 standards process and look > forward to seeing many of you this week at the IETF meeting in > Vancouver to continue the discussion. In the spirit of open > discussion, we wanted to share some observations in advance of the > meeting and share the latest progress from prototyping and testing. > > > > There are currently three different proposals that the group is > working through: > > > > * SPDY (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mbelshe-httpbis-spdy), > > * HTTP Speed+Mobility > (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-montenegro-httpbis-speed-mobility), > > * Network-Friendly HTTP Upgrade > (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tarreau-httpbis-network-friendly). > > > > The good news is that everyone involved wants to make the Web faster, > more scalable, more secure, and more mobile-friendly, and each > proposal has benefits in different areas that the discussion can > choose from. > > > > --- A Genuinely Faster Web --- > > > > The SPDY proposal has been great for raising awareness of Web > performance. It takes a "clean slate" approach to improving HTTP. > > > > To compare the performance of SPDY with HTTP/1.1 we have run tests > comparing download times of several public web sites using a > controlled tested study. The test uses publically available software > run with mostly default configurations while applying all the > currently available optimizations to HTTP/1.1. You can find a > preliminary report on the test results here: > http://research.microsoft.com/apps/pubs/?id=170059. The results > mirror > other data > (http://www.guypo.com/technical/not-as-spdy-as-you-thought) > that indicate mixed results with SPDY performance. > > > > Our results indicate almost equal performance between SPDY and > HTTP/1.1 when one applies all the known optimizations to HTTP/1.1. > SPDY's performance improvements are not consistent and significant. > We > will continue our testing, and we welcome others to publish their > results so that HTTP/2.0 can choose the best changes and deliver the > best possible performance and scalability improvements compared to > HTTP/1.1. > > > > > > --- Taking the Best from Each --- > > > > Speed is one of several areas of improvement. Currently, there's no > clear consensus that any one of the proposals is the clear choice or > even starting point for HTTP/2.0 (based on our reading the > Expressions > of Interest and discussions on this mailing list. A good example of > this is the vigorous discussion around mandating TLS encryption > (http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5246) for HTTP/2.0. > > > > We think a good approach for HTTP/2.0 is to take the best solution > for each of these areas from each of the proposals. This approach > helps us focus the discussion for each area of the protocol. Of > course, this approach would still allow the standard to benefit from > the extensive knowledge gained from implementing existing proposals. > > > > We believe that the group can converge on consensus in the following > areas, based on our reading of the Expressions of Interest, by > starting from the different proposals. > > > > ------------------|------------------ > > Area | Opinion that > > | seems to prevail > > ------------------|------------------ > > 1. Compression | SPDY or Friendly > > ------------------|------------------ > > 2. Multiplexing | SPDY > > ------------------|------------------ > > 3. Mandatory TLS | Speed+Mobility > > ------------------|------------------ > > 4. Negotiation | Friendly or > > | Speed+Mobility > > ------------------|------------------ > > 5. Client Pull/ | Speed+Mobility > > Server Push | > > ------------------|------------------ > > 6. Flow Control | SPDY > > ------------------|------------------ > > 7. WebSockets | Speed+Mobility > > ------------------|------------------ > > > > Below, we discuss each HTTP/2.0 element and the current consensus > that appears to be forming within the Working Group. > I question why SPDY is the only content from multiplexing? network-friendly was designed based on the SPDY multiplexing model with improvements for intermediary flow control in mind. In light of the WG discussions since publishing network-friendly-00 we have alterations to the frames which should place it at as a stronger contender for: 2 - better flow identification / control options. 5 - client pull initiated with optional multiple responses (aka optional/negotiated server push), 7 - WebSockets as extension frames. (also SPDY as extension frames). > > 1. Compression > > > > Compression is simple to conceptualize and implement, and it is > important. Proxies and other boxes in the middle on today's Web often > face problems with it. The HTTP/2.0 discussion has been rich but with > little consensus. > > Though some studies suggest that SPDY's header compression approach > shows promise, other studies show this compression to be > prohibitively > onerous for intermediary devices. More information here would help us > make sure we're making the Web faster and better. > > > > Also, an entire segment of implementers are not interested in > compression as defined in SPDY. That's a challenge because the > latest > strawman for the working group charter > > (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/2012JulSep/0784.html) > states that the "resulting specification(s) are expected to be meet > these goals for common existing deployments of HTTP; in particular, > ... intermediation (by proxies, corporate firewalls, 'reverse' > proxies > and Content Delivery Networks)." > > > > We think the SPDY or Friendly proposals is a good starting point for > progress. > > > > 2. Multiplexing > > > > All three proposals define similar multiplexing models. We haven't > had substantial discussion on the differences. This lack of > discussion > suggests that there is rough consensus around the SPDY framing for > multiplexing. > > > We think that the SPDY proposal is a good starting point here and > best captures the current consensus. > > > > 3. Mandating Always On TLS > > > > There is definitely no consensus to mandate TLS for all Web > communication, but some major implementers have stated they will not > to adopt HTTP/2.0 unless the working group supports a "TLS is > mandatory" position. A very preliminary note from the chair > > (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/2012JulSep/0601.html) > states that there is a lack of consensus for mandating TLS. > > > > We think the Speed+Mobility proposal is a good starting point here as > it provides options to turn TLS on (or not). > As does network-friendly, which has the ability to negotiate any feature in either client request frames or mid-stream interleaved control frames. > > 4. Negotiation > > > > Only two of the proposals actually discuss how different endpoints > agree to use HTTP/2.0. > > > > (The SPDY proposal does not specify a negotiation method. Current > prototype implementations use the TLS-NPN > (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-agl-tls-nextprotoneg) extension. > While the other proposals use HTTP Upgrade to negotiate HTTP/2.0, > some > parties have expressed non-support for this method as well.) > > > > We think either of the Friendly or Speed+Mobility proposals is a good > starting point because they are the only ones that have any language > in this respect. > > > > 5. Client Pull and Server Push > > > > There are tradeoffs between a server push model and a client pull > model. The main question is how to improve performance while > respecting bandwidth and client caches. > > > > Server Push has not had the same level of implementation and > experimentation as the other features in SPDY. More information here > would help us make sure we're making the Web faster and better. > > > > We think the Speed+Mobility proposal is a good starting point here, > suggesting that this issue may be better served in a separate > document > rather than tied to the core HTTP/2.0 protocol. > > Indeed. The point being that the framing model needs to be able to be used by a reasonable server-push even if the details of push flow control are omitted from the initial HTTP/2 spec. > > 6. Flow Control > > > > There has only been limited discussion in the HTTPbis working group > on flow control. Flow Control offers a lot of opportunity make the > Web > faster as well as to break it; for example, implementations need to > figure out how to optimize for opposing goals (like throughput and > responsiveness) at the same time. > > > > The current version of the SPDY proposal specifies a flow control > message with many settings are that are not well-defined. The > Speed+Mobilty proposal has a simplified flow control model based on > certain assumptions. More experimentation and information here would > help us make sure we're making the Web faster and better. > > > > We think that the SPDY proposal is a good starting point here. > > > > 7. WebSockets > > > > We see support for aligning HTTP/2.0 with a future version of > WebSockets, as suggested in the introduction of the Speed+Mobility > proposal. > > > > --- Moving forward --- > > > > We're excited for the Web to get faster, more stable, and more > capable, and HTTP/2.0 is an important part of that. > > > > We believe that bringing together the best elements of the current > SPDY, HTTP Speed+Mobility, and Network-Friendly HTTP Upgrade > proposals > is the best approach to make that happen. > > +1. AYJ
- HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly web Henrik Frystyk Nielsen
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Martin Nilsson
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Roberto Peon
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Amos Jeffries
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Figroc Chen
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… patrick mcmanus
- RE: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Henrik Frystyk Nielsen
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Poul-Henning Kamp
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… William Chan (陈智昌)
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… patrick mcmanus
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Poul-Henning Kamp
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… patrick mcmanus
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… patrick mcmanus
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Yoav Nir
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Martin Nilsson
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Poul-Henning Kamp
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Martin Nilsson
- RE: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Jitu Padhye
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Jonathan Ballard
- Re[2]: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendl… Adrien W. de Croy
- RE: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Henrik Frystyk Nielsen
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Mike Belshe
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Roberto Peon
- RE: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Jitu Padhye
- RE: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Jitu Padhye
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… James M Snell
- RE: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Jitu Padhye
- RE: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Benjamin Carlyle
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Rajeev Bector