Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly web
Jonathan Ballard <dzonatas@gmail.com> Mon, 30 July 2012 20:24 UTC
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Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 13:22:02 -0700
Message-ID: <CAAPAK-7GgquyQNYtsNJRrWO-jbq_dj6fJ-=A9kk=wz+gCJHTuA@mail.gmail.com>
From: Jonathan Ballard <dzonatas@gmail.com>
To: Jitu Padhye <padhye@microsoft.com>
Cc: Roberto Peon <grmocg@gmail.com>, Henrik Frystyk Nielsen <henrikn@microsoft.com>, "ietf-http-wg@w3.org" <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>, Gabriel Montenegro <Gabriel.Montenegro@microsoft.com>, Rob Trace <Rob.Trace@microsoft.com>, "Adalberto Foresti (MS OPEN TECH)" <aforesti@microsoft.com>
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Subject: Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly web
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Where that is all cold there is the medium expiration in the mentioned common suite: chrome://chrome/settings/content/expiration/medium?true. SPDY+TLS offers no immediate exception except recompile resources to local storage, and all of that is said off-topic at Vancouver on or about USB. On Monday, July 30, 2012, Jitu Padhye wrote: > **Ø **Was the client/server speaking SPDY/2 or SPDY/3?**** > > Spdy/2**** > > ** ** > > **Ø **A percentage of the time, Chrome will not use SPDY (it decides > this at startup). Did you verify that it was always speaking SPDY? (I'd > guess yes!)**** > > Yes. **** > > ** ** > > **Ø **Was the server using the CWND set sent in the SETTINGS frame, and > was it sending it to the client?**** > > I did not check this – I will go back and look. ** ** > > ** ** > > **Ø **What was the server's initcwnd?**** > > Whatever the default is. I think it was 2 or 4. I will take a look. **** > > ** ** > > **Ø **Was slow-start-after-idle turned off on the kernel?**** > > No. Again, we only used default settings. **** > > ** ** > > **Ø **How long were the various connections in slow start, and did they > ever exit slow-start?**** > > I will have to take a look. **** > > ** ** > > **Ø **Was the SSL cert chain the same size and using the same algorithms? > **** > > Yes. **** > > ** ** > > **Ø **Was the dummynet (or equivalent) configured to have appropriate > buffer size (else it does packet drops silently)?**** > > Yes, and I know this, because I had initially screwed this up J**** > > ** ** > > **Ø **Were these all cold-connection, cold-cache first-page load > timings? The use of keep-alive in figure 3 would seem to indicate > otherwise, but I'm not sure which are which...**** > > All cold cache. Keep alive is for only fetches while loading the first > page. **** > > ** ** > > **Ø **Did you put Chromium into 'replay' mode (where date and random > always return in the same manner, regardless of actual date)?**** > > No, but I agree that this setting would have made more sense. **** > > ** ** > > **Ø **Any particular reason that you turned off entity-body compression > in Apache? Were the resources saved verbatim from WinHTTrack (in which case > it'd make sense)?**** > > Not quite sure what you are asking here … can you please clarify?**** > > ** ** > > **Ø **Was the server emulating the original server's think times? This > can have a very, very large impact on pipelined HTTP performance. **** > > Only “index.html” was loaded for each site. I should clarify that in > text. So think times are not an issue. **** > > ** ** > > **Ø **We've found that the various automatic page-is-done signals are > often less useful than something which measures the above-the-fold page > load time. This generally involves cameras pointed at screens and a human > looking at the video to determine at which frame the page is useful, and > designating that frame as 'done-for-above-the-fold'**** > > I agree that age load time, as we measured it, is not a foolproof metric. > The problem is that all other alternatives are too cumbersome to measure > (and worse) replicate correctly. **** > > ** ** > > **Ø **I'd love to see if we could get a common suite of test data over > which we could all run experiments/benchmarks. Is anyone else interested in > doing so?**** > > This is definitely interesting. Something like RFC5033?**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > *From:* Roberto Peon [mailto:grmocg@gmail.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', > 'grmocg@gmail.com');>] > *Sent:* Sunday, July 29, 2012 3:16 PM > *To:* Henrik Frystyk Nielsen > *Cc:* ietf-http-wg@w3.org <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', > 'ietf-http-wg@w3.org');>; Gabriel Montenegro; Rob Trace; Adalberto > Foresti (MS OPEN TECH) > *Subject:* Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly web**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > Interesting data! Questions about test methodology:**** > > ** ** > > Was the client/server speaking SPDY/2 or SPDY/3?**** > > A percentage of the time, Chrome will not use SPDY (it decides this at > startup). Did you verify that it was always speaking SPDY? (I'd guess yes!) > **** > > Was the server using the CWND set sent in the SETTINGS frame, and was it > sending it to the client?**** > > What was the server's initcwnd?**** > > Was slow-start-after-idle turned off on the kernel?**** > > How long were the various connections in slow start, and did they ever > exit slow-start?**** > > Was the SSL cert chain the same size and using the same algorithms?**** > > Was the dummynet (or equivalent) configured to have appropriate buffer > size (else it does packet drops silently)?**** > > Were these all cold-connection, cold-cache first-page load timings? The > use of keep-alive in figure 3 would seem to indicate otherwise, but I'm not > sure which are which...**** > > Did you put Chromium into 'replay' mode (where date and random always > return in the same manner, regardless of actual date)?**** > > Any particular reason that you turned off entity-body compression in > Apache? Were the resources saved verbatim from WinHTTrack (in which case > it'd make sense)?**** > > Was the server emulating the original server's think times? This can have > a very, very large impact on pipelined HTTP performance. **** > > ** ** > > We've found that the various automatic page-is-done signals are often less > useful than something which measures the above-the-fold page load time. > This generally involves cameras pointed at screens and a human looking at > the video to determine at which frame the page is useful, and designating > that frame as 'done-for-above-the-fold'**** > > ** ** > > I'd love to see if we could get a common suite of test data over which we > could all run experiments/benchmarks.**** > > Is anyone else interested in doing so?**** > > ** ** > > -=R**** > > On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 1:14 PM, Henrik Frystyk Nielsen < > henrikn@microsoft.com> wrote:**** > > Dear All,**** > > **** > > We remain committed to the HTTP/2.0 standards process and look forward to > seeing many of you this week at the IETF meeting in Vancouver to continue > the discussion. In the spirit of open discussion, we wanted to share some > observations in advance of the meeting and share the latest progress from > prototyping and testing. **** > > **** > > There are currently three different proposals that the group is working > through:**** > > **** > > * SPDY (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mbelshe-httpbis-spdy),**** > > * HTTP Speed+Mobility ( > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-montenegro-httpbis-speed-mobility),**** > > * Network-Friendly HTTP Upgrade ( > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tarreau-httpbis-network-friendly). **** > > **** > > The good news is that everyone involved wants to make the Web faster, more > scalable, more secure, and more mobile-friendly, and each proposal has > benefits in different areas that the discussion can choose from.**** > > **** > > --- A Genuinely Faster Web ---**** > > **** > > The SPDY proposal has been great for raising awareness of Web performance. > It takes a “clean slate” approach to improving HTTP.**** > > **** > > To compare the performance of SPDY with HTTP/1.1 we have run tests > comparing download times of several public web sites using a controlled > tested study. The test uses publically available software run with mostly > default configurations while applying all the currently available > optimizations to HTTP/1.1. You can find a prelim >
- HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly web Henrik Frystyk Nielsen
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Martin Nilsson
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Roberto Peon
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Amos Jeffries
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Figroc Chen
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… patrick mcmanus
- RE: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Henrik Frystyk Nielsen
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Poul-Henning Kamp
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… William Chan (陈智昌)
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… patrick mcmanus
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Poul-Henning Kamp
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… patrick mcmanus
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… patrick mcmanus
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Yoav Nir
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Martin Nilsson
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Poul-Henning Kamp
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Martin Nilsson
- RE: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Jitu Padhye
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Jonathan Ballard
- Re[2]: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendl… Adrien W. de Croy
- RE: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Henrik Frystyk Nielsen
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Mike Belshe
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Roberto Peon
- RE: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Jitu Padhye
- RE: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Jitu Padhye
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… James M Snell
- RE: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Jitu Padhye
- RE: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Benjamin Carlyle
- Re: HTTP 2.0 and a Faster, more Mobile-friendly w… Rajeev Bector