Re: [hybi] Handshake was: The WebSocket protocol issues.

Greg Wilkins <gregw@webtide.com> Tue, 05 October 2010 00:19 UTC

Return-Path: <gregw@webtide.com>
X-Original-To: hybi@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: hybi@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5A303A6D27 for <hybi@core3.amsl.com>; Mon, 4 Oct 2010 17:19:25 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.748
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.748 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.229, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 86uzcgPDKodN for <hybi@core3.amsl.com>; Mon, 4 Oct 2010 17:19:24 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-px0-f172.google.com (mail-px0-f172.google.com [209.85.212.172]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A21653A6C0F for <hybi@ietf.org>; Mon, 4 Oct 2010 17:19:24 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by pxi6 with SMTP id 6so1935048pxi.31 for <hybi@ietf.org>; Mon, 04 Oct 2010 17:20:20 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.142.60.11 with SMTP id i11mr9491790wfa.97.1286238020625; Mon, 04 Oct 2010 17:20:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.142.165.19 with HTTP; Mon, 4 Oct 2010 17:20:20 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimyJj+Jxz1Q6fLrQ8iosGkD+0shUh3=td+jX_Do@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikszM0pVE-0dpZ2kv=i=y5yzS2ekeyZxtz9N=fQ@mail.gmail.com> <AANLkTikRYB_suPmSdH3uzGmdynozECRszDx+BpUvtZ4h@mail.gmail.com> <5CBF797D-A58E-4129-96B3-164F6E7409B9@apple.com> <4CA0D0D2.4040006@caucho.com> <AANLkTinACqm-GxUPhvFMf6_sGfeJofwy1r=28o=vgM43@mail.gmail.com> <4CA12810.8020006@caucho.com> <AANLkTimrMfXrnVMjU3f57L_sO7usyYQ56rBM4aMb2Pfr@mail.gmail.com> <20100928052501.GD12373@1wt.eu> <CA8029B0-71A3-44ED-88C6-934FE833BBA2@apple.com> <AANLkTim+fXj-h6OS3OdcfVfh3Q1UwxD8NLVawb=AWHX+@mail.gmail.com> <4FAC5C93-9BDF-4752-AFBC-162D718397AB@apple.com> <AANLkTikcH1W3bQwumqHbe-Yqa3XdoJqCa2b-mZuvoQ7g@mail.gmail.com> <9746E847-DC8B-45A7-ADF3-2ADB9DA7F82E@apple.com> <AANLkTik9igUwoxVrktoBoZrPoUW=Tjh7HyVbGJgQYes-@mail.gmail.com> <9F595226-FA0A-4C38-A6D0-0F4214BD7D21@apple.com> <4CA4BE10.1010709@caucho.com> <AANLkTi=wKFnNOuM+U3fktAFRn3R5OZ7c6PR2W3EAy7tm@mail.gmail.com> <4CA53E6B.1040808@caucho.com> <AANLkTikOyvF5AHTf4sDD=rWmK2FTD6R6LaHa4KTqkbcm@mail.gmail.com> <4CA68098.8010404@caucho.com> <AANLkTinYhW9MnnM3tkbCWziePyM7mFUEteKhw5OGp-eS@mail.gmail.com> <AANLkTi=_ejOCNiM49VW5q05=H7-M0jzAvXvGaKM1b7mX@mail.gmail.com> <AANLkTimyJj+Jxz1Q6fLrQ8iosGkD+0shUh3=td+jX_Do@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 11:20:20 +1100
Message-ID: <AANLkTikQcuSuwXNOartT_qLaNMDNnOSzuDNepao7t9tf@mail.gmail.com>
From: Greg Wilkins <gregw@webtide.com>
To: Adam Barth <ietf@adambarth.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Cc: hybi <hybi@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [hybi] Handshake was: The WebSocket protocol issues.
X-BeenThere: hybi@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Server-Initiated HTTP <hybi.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hybi>, <mailto:hybi-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/hybi>
List-Post: <mailto:hybi@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:hybi-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hybi>, <mailto:hybi-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 00:19:25 -0000

On 3 October 2010 03:24, Adam Barth <ietf@adambarth.com> wrote:

> I'm saying these issue are subtle and require careful thought.

Exactly - and careful thought and analysis is what some are trying to
achieve in this thread.

It is not really helpful to imply that we are not giving it careful
thought or  that we are somehow not qualified enough for our careful
thought to count.

Your DNS example was a good one for us to analyse.  But in the end,
it re-enforced that our defence in depth is indeed working and that
DNS is safe from arbitrary XHR HTTP, so it is safer from our more
restricted HTTP handshake.  It is not an argument against the proposed
changes to the handshake.

So if you have other possible attack vectors, please post them and we
can also walk through the defences and see how they stand up.  With
such careful thought and analysis we might actually make progress on
the protocol proposals.