multi-level naming (was: RE: emoji (was Re: I-D Action: draft-klensin-idna-rfc5891bis-00.txt))
John C Klensin <klensin@jck.com> Fri, 17 March 2017 00:51 UTC
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Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 20:51:31 -0400
From: John C Klensin <klensin@jck.com>
To: Shawn Steele <Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com>, Patrik Fältström <paf@frobbit.se>
Subject: multi-level naming (was: RE: emoji (was Re: I-D Action: draft-klensin-idna-rfc5891bis-00.txt))
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Cc: idna-update@alvestrand.no, Andrew Sullivan <ajs@anvilwalrusden.com>
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There seem to be several discussions on some sort of two-layer system going on in parallel. Perhaps it is time to start thinking about consolidating them into a mailing list and/or future BOF. However, those who want to go down that path should be aware that we tried it before, at more or less the same time IDNA2003 was maturing as a spec, and motivated partially by strong suspicions that IDNs were going to get us into very nearly the mess we are in now, that the DNS couldn't handle the matching issues that IDNs and user expectations seemed to call for, and even an early version of the branding issues (then in the form of "[DNS] keywords". It has been long enough that I had forgotten that we actually had a WG (at least the tracker says we did) and have no memory of what is in a draft I apparently wrote, but... Circumstances have obviously changed since the WG was shut down (end of 2003 according to the tracker) and I hope we have learned some things, but, to lower the risk of reinventing the wheel, see https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/irnss/about/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-klensin-dns-search/ The date on the last version of the latter seems to be after the WG was abandoned, so it might constitute a summary of how far the WG's thinking got. Or not... again, my memory of that effort is shot. Glancing at it now, it at least contains a list of topics to be addressed. best, john --On Thursday, March 16, 2017 21:05 +0000 Shawn Steele <Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com> wrote: > A few of us were thinking maybe identifiers almost need (might > be too strong a word) two layers... One to provide a fairly > strict version of providing "identifiers" in a way that tries > to reduce confusion, and another layer that provides "friendly > labels" that help people get to those identifiers in a way > that makes them feel good. > > Most (AFAICT) of the more interesting uses of IDN already > resolve to a name that would fit in that "stricter identifier" > bucket, so, in practice, we kinda already have two layers. > The "marketing thought it would be good if this linked to us" > which goes to the "this is the label that doesn't scare the IT > department." > > Regardless on where you draw the line of what characters are > appropriate, this is already happening somewhat naturally, > especially when it's "easy". Eg: an umlauted domain resolving > to a pure-ascii variant spelling. Of course that's tougher > for other languages, but the same idea seems to happen a lot.
- Re: I-D Action: draft-klensin-idna-rfc5891bis-00.… John C Klensin
- RE: I-D Action: draft-klensin-idna-rfc5891bis-00.… John C Klensin
- FWD: I-D Action: draft-klensin-idna-rfc5891bis-00… John C Klensin
- Re: I-D Action: draft-klensin-idna-rfc5891bis-00.… Paul Hoffman
- RE: I-D Action: draft-klensin-idna-rfc5891bis-00.… Shawn Steele
- Re: I-D Action: draft-klensin-idna-rfc5891bis-00.… Paul Hoffman
- RE: I-D Action: draft-klensin-idna-rfc5891bis-00.… Shawn Steele
- Re: I-D Action: draft-klensin-idna-rfc5891bis-00.… John C Klensin
- RE: I-D Action: draft-klensin-idna-rfc5891bis-00.… John C Klensin
- RE: I-D Action: draft-klensin-idna-rfc5891bis-00.… Shawn Steele
- Re: I-D Action: draft-klensin-idna-rfc5891bis-00.… Asmus Freytag
- Re: I-D Action: draft-klensin-idna-rfc5891bis-00.… Asmus Freytag
- Re: I-D Action: draft-klensin-idna-rfc5891bis-00.… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: I-D Action: draft-klensin-idna-rfc5891bis-00.… Asmus Freytag
- emoji (was Re: I-D Action: draft-klensin-idna-rfc… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: emoji (was Re: I-D Action: draft-klensin-idna… John C Klensin
- RE: emoji (was Re: I-D Action: draft-klensin-idna… Shawn Steele
- Re: emoji (was Re: I-D Action: draft-klensin-idna… Andrew Sullivan
- RE: emoji (was Re: I-D Action: draft-klensin-idna… Shawn Steele
- RE: emoji (was Re: I-D Action: draft-klensin-idna… Shawn Steele
- Re: emoji (was Re: I-D Action: draft-klensin-idna… Patrik Fältström
- RE: emoji (was Re: I-D Action: draft-klensin-idna… Shawn Steele
- Re: I-D Action: draft-klensin-idna-rfc5891bis-00.… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: emoji (was Re: I-D Action: draft-klensin-idna… John Levine
- RE: emoji (was Re: I-D Action: draft-klensin-idna… Shawn Steele
- RE: emoji (was Re: I-D Action: draft-klensin-idna… John C Klensin
- RE: emoji (was Re: I-D Action: draft-klensin-idna… Shawn Steele
- multi-level naming (was: RE: emoji (was Re: I-D A… John C Klensin
- Re: emoji (was Re: I-D Action: draft-klensin-idna… Patrik Fältström
- Re: emoji (was Re: I-D Action: draft-klensin-idna… Asmus Freytag
- RE: emoji (was Re: I-D Action: draft-klensin-idna… Shawn Steele
- Re: emoji (was Re: I-D Action: draft-klensin-idna… John C Klensin
- RE: emoji (was Re: I-D Action: draft-klensin-idna… John C Klensin
- Re: emoji (was Re: I-D Action: draft-klensin-idna… John Levine
- RE: emoji (was Re: I-D Action: draft-klensin-idna… Shawn Steele
- Re: [Ext] RE: emoji (was Re: I-D Action: draft-kl… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: emoji (was Re: I-D Action: draft-klensin-idna… Patrik Fältström
- Re: [Ext] RE: emoji (was Re: I-D Action: draft-kl… Kim Davies
- Re: [Ext] RE: emoji (was Re: I-D Action: draft-kl… John C Klensin
- RE: [Ext] RE: emoji (was Re: I-D Action: draft-kl… Shawn Steele
- RE: [Ext] RE: emoji (was Re: I-D Action: draft-kl… John C Klensin
- RE: [Ext] RE: emoji (was Re: I-D Action: draft-kl… Shawn Steele
- Re: [Ext] RE: emoji (was Re: I-D Action: draft-kl… Joseph Yee
- Re: multi-level naming Martin J. Dürst
- RE: [Ext] RE: emoji (was Re: I-D Action: draft-kl… Mark Svancarek
- Re: multi-level naming John C Klensin
- RE: [Ext] RE: emoji (was Re: I-D Action: draft-kl… John C Klensin
- Re: [Ext] RE: emoji (was Re: I-D Action: draft-kl… Mark Davis ☕️
- Re: multi-level naming JFC Morfin