Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-00.txt
Igor Malyushkin <gmalyushkin@gmail.com> Sat, 17 February 2024 13:32 UTC
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From: Igor Malyushkin <gmalyushkin@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2024 15:32:37 +0200
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To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Cc: Kaliraj Vairavakkalai <kaliraj@juniper.net>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, Natrajan Venkataraman <natv@juniper.net>, "idr@ietf. org" <idr@ietf.org>, Keyur Patel <keyur@arrcus.com>, Jeff Haas <jhaas@juniper.net>, "idr-chairs@ietf.org" <idr-chairs@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-00.txt
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Hi Sue, Thank you for the clarification. Now I see how the draft became a WG document. I can't say I've read the CT text carefully enough or followed the process because I'm not interested in the solution the way it provides. But I can recall one discussion of the topic (which is important to me) of this new draft ( https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/3OLNQi6euZ1zLvYh6e8fVdarK6o/). Back to those days it didn't seem to me there was a wide interest. After that, AFAIK, nothing on the topic appeared and now this is the WG document, that's why I was surprised. Looks like I missed a lot. Thank you again for clarifying. пт, 16 февр. 2024 г. в 21:34, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>: > Robert and Igor: > > > > The IDR chairs suggested this draft be pulled out of the CT text. It is > an orthogonal piece of work as general “tribal wisdom”. It will be > uniquely WG LC to determine if it is ready for publication. > > > > Similarly, draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ct-srv6 – was pulled out of the > draft-ietf-idr-bgp-srv6 text. Both drafts are experimental since they > were pulled out of an experimental draft. > > > > WG LC on CT will contain both drafts as both were part of the initial > draft. These three drafts can move independently toward publication. > > > > Sue > > > > *From:* Kaliraj Vairavakkalai <kaliraj@juniper.net> > *Sent:* Friday, February 16, 2024 2:28 PM > *To:* Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>; Igor Malyushkin < > gmalyushkin@gmail.com> > *Cc:* Natrajan Venkataraman <natv@juniper.net>; idr@ietf. org < > idr@ietf.org>; Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>; Keyur Patel < > keyur@arrcus.com>; Jeff Haas <jhaas@juniper.net>; idr-chairs@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-00.txt > > > > > > Hi Robert, Igor, > > > > To provide some context – > > > > The text in this draft has been reviewed by WG, as part of draft-ct. > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ct-23.html#name-avoiding-loops-between-rout > > > > During the WG Directorate and Chair reviews of draft-ct, it was suggested > to pull out this section to a new draft, as the described problem is not > specific to CT. > > > > This document history is described in: > > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-00#appendix-A.1 > > > > I will cleanup the Author and Contributor list, to not inherit from > draft-CT. > > > > About whether the problem being described is real or not, we can have > further discussions, and clarify draft text as required. We hit these > issues in our testing with LU and CT, and I think it is very likely to hit > it in the field. That’s why it is important to document it. > > > > Just wanted to first clear the confusion on the origin/history of this > draft. So that we can focus on technical discussion. > > > > IDR-chairs may want to add something. > > > > Thanks > > Kaliraj > > > > Juniper Business Use Only > > *From: *Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> > *Date: *Friday, February 16, 2024 at 9:49 AM > *To: *Igor Malyushkin <gmalyushkin@gmail.com> > *Cc: *Kaliraj Vairavakkalai <kaliraj@juniper.net>, Natrajan Venkataraman < > natv@juniper.net>, idr@ietf. org <idr@ietf.org> > *Subject: *Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-00.txt > > *[External Email. Be cautious of content]* > > > > Hey Igor, > > > > Well I think there is no problem to be solved here to start with. > > > > It looks to me like someone completely unfamiliar with IETF process or > even BGP Route Reflection took a CT draft and deleted most text except > Appendix A, Co-Authors, Contributors and part of References :) > > > > I am actually surprised that IETF Submit script allowed to post it with > such document name. Looks like it is broken. > > > > Cheers, > > R. > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at 6:37 PM Igor Malyushkin <gmalyushkin@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Hello all, > > Agreed with Robert. I thought too I missed the adoption call and was > surprised to see the doc already adopted. > > About CT parts, to me they look like a some form of advertising, not sure > they are necessary to express the problem statement at all. Not to mention > that it looks like AIGP solves the problem in general. > > > > пт, 16 февр. 2024 г. в 19:27, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>: > > All, > > > > > draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-00.txt > > > > Also please kindly indicate why this text is posted as an IDR WG document > as the format of the name suggests ... > > > > I do not recall any single discussion on this proposal on the IDR WG list. > > > > Are the authors, so many co-authors and a large list of contributors not > aware about the draft naming convention not to mention BGP Route Reflection > principles of operation ? > > > > The Ack section also seems copied from CT draft ... not too mention it > says this: > > The decision to not reuse SAFI 128 and create a new address-family to > carry these transport-routes was based on suggestion made by Richard > Roberts and Krzysztof Szarkowicz.¶ > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-00*appendix-C-2__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!AZEUHyTPYNlG9OKb52muKBAGkNew-0Po8FKLaviWSEg-Oqp4Bqg_H6hwb1DZEuJaszphNMHxl8ErvDlz$> > > I think it would be simply best if you delete this doc from datatracker at > this point. > > > > Cheers, > > Robert > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at 5:24 PM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I have two comments on your draft: > > > > #1 - RFC4456 does not assume RRs not to be in the data plane. Quite > contrary when this RFC was originally written all RRs were in the > forwarding path as most networks did not use any form of encapsulation. Yes > I do recall running network which did not run MPLS nor SR :) In fact the > mentioned above encapsulations moved the RRs out of data path as > encapsulated packets did not need IP lookup. > > > > #2 - What you are saying in respect to CLUSTER_LIST is incorrect. The > entire point of CLUSTER_LIST is not to allow paths with local CLUSTER_ID to > enter Route Reflector in the first place. Quote from RFC4456: > > > > *If the local CLUSTER_ID is found in the CLUSTER_LIST, the advertisement > received SHOULD be ignored**.* > > > > Best path has nothing to do with it. The augmentation to BGP best path > selection only aims for consistent selection not to prevent the loops. > > > > Conclusion: What you are describing is a route reflector > misconfiguration not a protocol bug. > > > > ** "ignored - really means dropped here. > > > > Cheers, > > Robert > > > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org> > Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at 2:23 PM > Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-00.txt > To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org> > Cc: <idr@ietf.org> > > > > Internet-Draft draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-00.txt is now available. It is a > work > item of the Inter-Domain Routing (IDR) WG of the IETF. > > Title: BGP Route Reflector in Forwarding Path > Authors: Kaliraj Vairavakkalai > Natrajan Venkataraman > Name: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-00.txt > Pages: 8 > Dates: 2024-02-16 > > Abstract: > > The procedures in BGP Route Reflection (RR) spec [RFC4456] primarily > deal with scenarios where the RR is not in forwarding path, and is > reflecting BGP routes with next hop unchanged. > > These procedures can sometimes result in traffic forwarding loops in > deployments where the RR is in forwarding path, and is reflecting BGP > routes with next hop set to self. > > This document specifies approaches to minimize possiblity of such > traffic forwarding loops. One of those approaches updates path > selection procedures specified in Section 9 of BGP RR. [RFC4456] > > The IETF datatracker status page for this Internet-Draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr/ > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!AZEUHyTPYNlG9OKb52muKBAGkNew-0Po8FKLaviWSEg-Oqp4Bqg_H6hwb1DZEuJaszphNMHxl6sQStEm$> > > There is also an HTMLized version available at: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-00 > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-00__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!AZEUHyTPYNlG9OKb52muKBAGkNew-0Po8FKLaviWSEg-Oqp4Bqg_H6hwb1DZEuJaszphNMHxl5yt5xQa$> > > Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at: > rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts > > > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!AZEUHyTPYNlG9OKb52muKBAGkNew-0Po8FKLaviWSEg-Oqp4Bqg_H6hwb1DZEuJaszphNMHxl_q06C-f$> > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!AZEUHyTPYNlG9OKb52muKBAGkNew-0Po8FKLaviWSEg-Oqp4Bqg_H6hwb1DZEuJaszphNMHxl9CJwiz8$> > >
- [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-00.txt internet-drafts
- [Idr] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-0… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-0… Igor Malyushkin
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-0… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-0… Kaliraj Vairavakkalai
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-0… Susan Hares
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-0… Igor Malyushkin
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-0… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-0… Kaliraj Vairavakkalai
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-0… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-0… Kaliraj Vairavakkalai
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-0… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-0… Kaliraj Vairavakkalai
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-0… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-0… Kaliraj Vairavakkalai
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-0… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-0… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-0… James Uttaro
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-0… Kaliraj Vairavakkalai
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-0… Igor Malyushkin
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-0… Kaliraj Vairavakkalai
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-0… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-0… Kaliraj Vairavakkalai
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-0… Igor Malyushkin
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-0… Kaliraj Vairavakkalai
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-0… Susan Hares
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-0… Igor Malyushkin