Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-00.txt

Igor Malyushkin <gmalyushkin@gmail.com> Sat, 17 February 2024 13:32 UTC

Return-Path: <gmalyushkin@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB833C14F60F; Sat, 17 Feb 2024 05:32:54 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -7.005
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.005 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2zM482Hp-Q51; Sat, 17 Feb 2024 05:32:50 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-ua1-x92d.google.com (mail-ua1-x92d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::92d]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A1E18C14F5F4; Sat, 17 Feb 2024 05:32:50 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-ua1-x92d.google.com with SMTP id a1e0cc1a2514c-7cedcea89a0so1827532241.1; Sat, 17 Feb 2024 05:32:50 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1708176769; x=1708781569; darn=ietf.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=gAYu/A3u661hH/7pXv4LjyASvtzhKl1tYZzCFfADo9c=; b=fXWR49faOTDfMCNnr9xwbtYyxN2axFzpLfHkro92NqW5hXLDEspVEcv43wDDFb9BKy vJgcgM/peVwa7ZP5wq3IN9J+kJfAfqn5oVb9eJCsRy3IsfyUHnfiMsY0WRlLlQDGLLYH 4ejmRBgSS0YD1hgNhKeDc0FbthYBvO42SXCWnfI9je1LEnOPV9cKFm1dyyyVS+CwGd+Q m9D+ykLkbtoaVt432U3VbUD5pFhtEqNQgDFBNIP5IZhNnrRAFMFimvDTNG44gKMLMFoD eHxRjkeUZF6GGXiEE2XYcNIErAeBKSK9XAn9seiq9g/rJpZL5nxUnCGeaVnXFOeyufNi JkEA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1708176769; x=1708781569; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=gAYu/A3u661hH/7pXv4LjyASvtzhKl1tYZzCFfADo9c=; b=WvoAJkrGMfmUUdUPSrR0SjnrnITZ5enzLMbFhAFUBE+SvuuhVTD5NMADpjyvNeUig1 QKb77t+Gd8olaDfqJcskDKIWrIq/VqAnon6n4DHOyMF7h7D0Sp0Dsx9PvuE5DGnUFdsR oORK/A8aSVkrwtIBV/GoBKIEfvTgPxDTfACN/a5c8+CYYd+7LvqCWkZNxiHX+ni0caHG zzsm4CAgEp1vAblUSVsmO+H1A0QL/ibx/H6YqJFQbbOaXU3raU3iCciZNrL6EY7eeYqY xqU2ZJ9pdre3Rl+bXZsCGTe0kLn0PclX6zRBv7g2Rmhmu6rS+3Ry4y/gss6UTXDmmfdK oUKw==
X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCXy1lUI3CoUC8NnUpnZaGipXCz0z7VZCxXaTbYOK7FNyugLkzDRsVKQpS+3MxuKGdPZzwMbsA4P3nvOzLodfORPoNrGNOVCoHKvPf9BGHhIavw=
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yw4GkH1AMAkS7NcBgLrZ3kOSDR4ja9oq34BrQ3hEZ0STqBTH3XU F3jluc8WEr5zIUDO1WSsxGPgybUMtdSOA/9SqSz85E7RbkntVXKlzSxXC4f5q+GIW4cfbhO9Exl gGZUCc4wyEP10Cwrbc5032mFonB8=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHe/ONp8h0UTVV/frAE/ygQll4mrjuVRcQfuM5AQf8RHeyo+NJfTQkEVR9gYSEMBW8LgGGD6kK4j2d+nfjP/j4=
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:2323:b0:470:3a9a:87e2 with SMTP id b3-20020a056102232300b004703a9a87e2mr1514587vsa.4.1708176768999; Sat, 17 Feb 2024 05:32:48 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <170808979403.62450.15246162512138575009@ietfa.amsl.com> <CAOj+MMF_E+PiV=-=CztdWt+iseir+tytYwBVYw=4ttR=VKNn4w@mail.gmail.com> <CAOj+MMH9Bo65KzheHwHLSaW6L-QzCPAGiQVxceHGOna9993NzA@mail.gmail.com> <CAEfhRrw3WdfReMaiaFpmd7ngxcLOziN4qzvH4roY1PJoThPV6Q@mail.gmail.com> <CAOj+MMENdNFEfjed+KKwbw2CVr-eQmR74_LytnFpu8oYsuJbmw@mail.gmail.com> <SJ0PR05MB863208BE5AB824F40A6DFB50A24C2@SJ0PR05MB8632.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <DM6PR08MB48573CB18795373367DEA0B9B34C2@DM6PR08MB4857.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
In-Reply-To: <DM6PR08MB48573CB18795373367DEA0B9B34C2@DM6PR08MB4857.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
From: Igor Malyushkin <gmalyushkin@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2024 15:32:37 +0200
Message-ID: <CAEfhRrzcEfRUYW-qZKtVCt2jT1UFPcDDUys+LdH1Rto3ExGfzw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Cc: Kaliraj Vairavakkalai <kaliraj@juniper.net>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, Natrajan Venkataraman <natv@juniper.net>, "idr@ietf. org" <idr@ietf.org>, Keyur Patel <keyur@arrcus.com>, Jeff Haas <jhaas@juniper.net>, "idr-chairs@ietf.org" <idr-chairs@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000087a8dc061193e53a"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/HX9q7bqxysbqq2YUhPGSG6G9fRE>
Subject: Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-00.txt
X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing <idr.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/idr>, <mailto:idr-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/idr/>
List-Post: <mailto:idr@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:idr-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr>, <mailto:idr-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2024 13:32:54 -0000

Hi Sue,

Thank you for the clarification. Now I see how the draft became a WG
document. I can't say I've read the CT text carefully enough or followed
the process because I'm not interested in the solution the way it provides.
But I can recall one discussion of the topic (which is important to me) of
this new draft (
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/3OLNQi6euZ1zLvYh6e8fVdarK6o/).
Back to those days it didn't seem to me there was a wide interest. After
that, AFAIK, nothing on the topic appeared and now this is the WG document,
that's why I was surprised. Looks like I missed a lot.

Thank you again for clarifying.



пт, 16 февр. 2024 г. в 21:34, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>:

> Robert and Igor:
>
>
>
> The IDR chairs suggested this draft be pulled out of the CT text.  It is
> an orthogonal piece of work as general “tribal wisdom”.   It will be
> uniquely WG LC to determine if it is ready for publication.
>
>
>
> Similarly, draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ct-srv6 – was pulled out of the
> draft-ietf-idr-bgp-srv6 text.   Both drafts are experimental since they
> were pulled out of an experimental draft.
>
>
>
> WG LC on CT will contain both drafts as both were part of the initial
> draft.   These three drafts can move independently toward publication.
>
>
>
> Sue
>
>
>
> *From:* Kaliraj Vairavakkalai <kaliraj@juniper.net>
> *Sent:* Friday, February 16, 2024 2:28 PM
> *To:* Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>; Igor Malyushkin <
> gmalyushkin@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* Natrajan Venkataraman <natv@juniper.net>; idr@ietf. org <
> idr@ietf.org>; Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>; Keyur Patel <
> keyur@arrcus.com>; Jeff Haas <jhaas@juniper.net>; idr-chairs@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-00.txt
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Robert, Igor,
>
>
>
> To provide some context –
>
>
>
> The text in this draft has been reviewed by WG, as part of draft-ct.
>
>
>
>
> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ct-23.html#name-avoiding-loops-between-rout
>
>
>
> During the WG Directorate and Chair reviews of draft-ct, it was suggested
> to pull out this section to a new draft, as the described problem is not
> specific to CT.
>
>
>
> This document history is described in:
>
>
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-00#appendix-A.1
>
>
>
> I will cleanup the Author and Contributor list, to not inherit from
> draft-CT.
>
>
>
> About whether the problem being described is real or not, we can have
> further discussions, and clarify draft text as required. We hit these
> issues in our testing with LU and CT, and I think it is very likely to hit
> it in the field. That’s why it is important to document it.
>
>
>
> Just wanted to first clear the confusion on the origin/history of this
> draft. So that we can focus on technical discussion.
>
>
>
> IDR-chairs may want to add something.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Kaliraj
>
>
>
> Juniper Business Use Only
>
> *From: *Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
> *Date: *Friday, February 16, 2024 at 9:49 AM
> *To: *Igor Malyushkin <gmalyushkin@gmail.com>
> *Cc: *Kaliraj Vairavakkalai <kaliraj@juniper.net>, Natrajan Venkataraman <
> natv@juniper.net>, idr@ietf. org <idr@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-00.txt
>
> *[External Email. Be cautious of content]*
>
>
>
> Hey Igor,
>
>
>
> Well I think there is no problem to be solved here to start with.
>
>
>
> It looks to me like someone completely unfamiliar with IETF process or
> even BGP Route Reflection took a CT draft and deleted most text except
> Appendix A, Co-Authors, Contributors and part of References :)
>
>
>
> I am actually surprised that IETF Submit script allowed to post it with
> such document name. Looks like it is broken.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> R.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at 6:37 PM Igor Malyushkin <gmalyushkin@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> Agreed with Robert. I thought too I missed the adoption call and was
> surprised to see the doc already adopted.
>
> About CT parts, to me they look like a some form of advertising, not sure
> they are necessary to express the problem statement at all. Not to mention
> that it looks like AIGP solves the problem in general.
>
>
>
> пт, 16 февр. 2024 г. в 19:27, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>:
>
> All,
>
>
>
> > draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-00.txt
>
>
>
> Also please kindly indicate why this text is posted as an IDR WG document
> as the format of the name suggests ...
>
>
>
> I do not recall any single discussion on this proposal on the IDR WG list.
>
>
>
> Are the authors, so many co-authors and a large list of contributors not
> aware about the draft naming convention not to mention BGP Route Reflection
> principles of operation ?
>
>
>
> The Ack section also seems copied from CT draft ... not too mention it
> says this:
>
> The decision to not reuse SAFI 128 and create a new address-family to
> carry these transport-routes was based on suggestion made by Richard
> Roberts and Krzysztof Szarkowicz.¶
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-00*appendix-C-2__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!AZEUHyTPYNlG9OKb52muKBAGkNew-0Po8FKLaviWSEg-Oqp4Bqg_H6hwb1DZEuJaszphNMHxl8ErvDlz$>
>
> I think it would be simply best if you delete this doc from datatracker at
> this point.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Robert
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at 5:24 PM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> I have two comments on your draft:
>
>
>
> #1 - RFC4456 does not assume RRs not to be in the data plane. Quite
> contrary when this RFC was originally written all RRs were in the
> forwarding path as most networks did not use any form of encapsulation. Yes
> I do recall running network which did not run MPLS nor SR :) In fact the
> mentioned above encapsulations moved the RRs out of data path as
> encapsulated packets did not need IP lookup.
>
>
>
> #2 - What you are saying in respect to CLUSTER_LIST is incorrect. The
> entire point of CLUSTER_LIST is not to allow paths with local CLUSTER_ID to
> enter Route Reflector in the first place. Quote from RFC4456:
>
>
>
> *If the local CLUSTER_ID is found in the CLUSTER_LIST, the advertisement
> received SHOULD be ignored**.*
>
>
>
> Best path has nothing to do with it. The augmentation to BGP best path
> selection only aims for consistent selection not to prevent the loops.
>
>
>
> Conclusion: What you are describing is a route reflector
> misconfiguration not a protocol bug.
>
>
>
> ** "ignored - really means dropped here.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Robert
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
> Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at 2:23 PM
> Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-00.txt
> To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org>
> Cc: <idr@ietf.org>
>
>
>
> Internet-Draft draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-00.txt is now available. It is a
> work
> item of the Inter-Domain Routing (IDR) WG of the IETF.
>
>    Title:   BGP Route Reflector in Forwarding Path
>    Authors: Kaliraj Vairavakkalai
>             Natrajan Venkataraman
>    Name:    draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-00.txt
>    Pages:   8
>    Dates:   2024-02-16
>
> Abstract:
>
>    The procedures in BGP Route Reflection (RR) spec [RFC4456] primarily
>    deal with scenarios where the RR is not in forwarding path, and is
>    reflecting BGP routes with next hop unchanged.
>
>    These procedures can sometimes result in traffic forwarding loops in
>    deployments where the RR is in forwarding path, and is reflecting BGP
>    routes with next hop set to self.
>
>    This document specifies approaches to minimize possiblity of such
>    traffic forwarding loops.  One of those approaches updates path
>    selection procedures specified in Section 9 of BGP RR.  [RFC4456]
>
> The IETF datatracker status page for this Internet-Draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr/
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!AZEUHyTPYNlG9OKb52muKBAGkNew-0Po8FKLaviWSEg-Oqp4Bqg_H6hwb1DZEuJaszphNMHxl6sQStEm$>
>
> There is also an HTMLized version available at:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-00
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fwd-rr-00__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!AZEUHyTPYNlG9OKb52muKBAGkNew-0Po8FKLaviWSEg-Oqp4Bqg_H6hwb1DZEuJaszphNMHxl5yt5xQa$>
>
> Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at:
> rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> I-D-Announce mailing list
> I-D-Announce@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!AZEUHyTPYNlG9OKb52muKBAGkNew-0Po8FKLaviWSEg-Oqp4Bqg_H6hwb1DZEuJaszphNMHxl_q06C-f$>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!AZEUHyTPYNlG9OKb52muKBAGkNew-0Po8FKLaviWSEg-Oqp4Bqg_H6hwb1DZEuJaszphNMHxl9CJwiz8$>
>
>