Re: [Idr] Robert Wilton's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-23: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
"Rob Wilton (rwilton)" <rwilton@cisco.com> Fri, 24 April 2020 16:24 UTC
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From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" <rwilton@cisco.com>
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, 'The IESG' <iesg@ietf.org>, "aretana.ietf@gmail.com" <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
CC: "draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis@ietf.org>, "idr-chairs@ietf.org" <idr-chairs@ietf.org>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>, 'Jie Dong' <jie.dong@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: Robert Wilton's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-23: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 16:24:24 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Robert Wilton's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-23: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Hi Sue, We discussed this in the telechat today. I think that Alvaro intends to comment. Please see inline ... > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> > Sent: 24 April 2020 16:04 > To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton@cisco.com>; 'The IESG' <iesg@ietf.org>; > aretana.ietf@gmail.com > Cc: draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org; idr@ietf.org; > 'Jie Dong' <jie.dong@huawei.com> > Subject: RE: Robert Wilton's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-23: > (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) > > Rob: > > Pulling your remaining question to the front: > > Your question is a good one: > But I don't understand why that means the > sender is a "SHOULD be 0" not a "MUST be 0"? > > This text is inherited from RFC5575. > > Originally (which is not in any document) > this was set because prototype implementations of > RFC5575 had set it to a 1 during a rushed deployment. > > Whether these implementation still exist in the > smaller boxes boxes from major vendors - I do not know. > > One of the habits of IDR is not to break existing BGP. [RW] Yes, and I fully support that pragmatic aim. > > I was torn whether RFC5575bis state "MUST" and go on. > I left it at "SHOULD" because it is a BIS. > > AFAIK the place this will change this is on the protocol testers. > Older boxes will break. [RW] But that might be a good thing, right? I.e. if the protocol tester flags up implementations that are still setting these values to 1 rather than 0 then they can be fixed? Hence reducing the risk of interop problems if these bits are ever used for future extensions. > > So that's the reasoning, and the author team was torn between > fixing the "SHOULD" to a "MUST" and breaking things. > > Robert Razuk or other people on the IDR list might have additional > comments on this one. > > Sue Hares [RW] Regards, Rob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Wilton (rwilton) [mailto:rwilton@cisco.com] > Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 9:44 AM > To: Susan Hares; 'The IESG'; aretana.ietf@gmail.com > Cc: draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org; idr@ietf.org; > 'Jie Dong' > Subject: RE: Robert Wilton's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-23: > (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) > > Hi Susan, > > Thanks for the quick response and explanation. > > Please see inline ... > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> > > Sent: 24 April 2020 13:01 > > To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton@cisco.com>; 'The IESG' > > <iesg@ietf.org> > > Cc: draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org; > > idr@ietf.org; 'Jie Dong' <jie.dong@huawei.com>; aretana.ietf@gmail.com > > Subject: RE: Robert Wilton's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-23: > > (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) > > > > Robert: > > > > Thank you for your question. I'm pulling the DISCUSS to the front. > > > > The Discuss in the phrases: > > > > "SHOULD be set to 0 on encoding, and MUST be ignored during decoding." > > > > is actually language used in many past routing drafts for expansion > > purposes. > [RW] > > Yes. I appreciate that historical precedent holds a lot of weight. Prior > to my discuss I had tried to quickly find examples of this, but was > looking in the wrong documents. ;-) > > > > > > The difficultly in deploying new code is in the partial deployments. > > The "must be ignored" clause allows the transmitter to change to > > something besides zero. > [RW] > Yes, it is the partial deployments that is concerning me. > > But I don't understand why that means the sender is a "SHOULD be 0" not a > "MUST be 0"? > > In the interop case either sender or receiver could be upgraded, so why > the asymmetry? > > My understanding is that these fields should be set to 0 unless there is a > new specification that gives them meaning which affects both sender and > receiver. > > > > > > This is a RFC5575bis document based past history of these statements > > in routing code. > [RW] > I agree, and I have no intention of unduly holding up a document, but just > want to check that this is being expressed in the most correct and > understandable way. > > > > > > I've taken the remainder of your comments as editorial comments. > > Our authoring team loads these comments into github, and you are > > welcome to Contribute to the resolutions. > [RW] > That sounds fine, thank you. > > Regards, > Rob > > > > > > Susan Hares > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Robert Wilton via Datatracker [mailto:noreply@ietf.org] > > Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 5:49 AM > > To: The IESG > > Cc: draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org; > > idr@ietf.org; Jie Dong; aretana.ietf@gmail.com; jie.dong@huawei.com > > Subject: Robert Wilton's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-23: > > (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) > > > > Robert Wilton has entered the following ballot position for > > draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-23: Discuss > > > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut > > this introductory paragraph, however.) > > > > > > Please refer to > > https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis/ > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > DISCUSS: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > I don't know if this is a valid discuss point, so happy to be educated > > that it is always written this way and I'll remove my discuss ... > > > > I note that in 5 places this document has text that states the > > equivalent to "SHOULD be set to 0 on encoding, and MUST be ignored > during decoding." > > (example given below). > > > > Doesn't this make extending this in future more risky because if new > > meaning are given to these bits then there could be senders already > > transmitting non 0 values which a receiver might then misinterpret? > > > > Hence, I was surprised that the constraints did not also include a > > MUST on the encoding side (i.e. be strict in what you send ...), i.e. > > "MUST be set to 0 on encoding, and MUST be ignored during decoding." > > > > Example: > > The extended is encoded as follows: > > > > 0 1 2 3 > > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > | reserved | reserved | reserved | reserved | > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > | reserved | r.| DSCP | > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > > > Figure 6: Traffic Marking Extended Community Encoding > > > > o DSCP: new DSCP value for the transiting IP packet. > > > > o reserved, r.: SHOULD be set to 0 on encoding, and MUST be ignored > > during decoding. > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > COMMENT: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Hi, > > > > I also had a few minor comments on this document: > > > > 4.1. Length Encoding > > > > o If the NLRI length is smaller than 240 (0xf0 hex) octets, the > > length field can be encoded as a single octet. > > > > o Otherwise, it is encoded as an extended-length 2-octet value in > > which the most significant nibble of the first octet is all ones. > > > > This describes the first nibble in binary, and then later it is shown > > in hex. > > It might be more clear to write ... in which the most significant > > nibble has the hex value 0xf. > > > > In Figure 1 above, values less-than 240 are encoded using two hex > > digits (0xnn). Values above 239 are encoded using 3 hex digits > > (0xfnnn). The highest value that can be represented with this > > encoding is 4095. For example the length value of 239 is encoded as > > 0xef (single octet) while 240 is encoded as 0xf0f0 (2-octet). > > > > 4.2. NLRI Value Encoding > > > > Components MUST follow strict type ordering by increasing numerical > > order. A given component type may (exactly once) or may not be > > present in the Flow Specification. If present, it MUST precede any > > component of higher numeric type value. > > > > I wasn't sure, but wondering whether "may (exactly once) or may not be" > > should be "MAY (exactly once) be"? > > > > Sue: (treating as a "editorial) > > > > Does this work for you? > > Old/A given component type may (exactly once) or may not be present in > > the flow Specification/ > > > > New/Each given component type may or may not be present in the Flow > > Specification. If a type is present, it may be present only once./ > > > > > > 5.1. Ordering of Flow Specifications > > > > For all other component types, unless otherwise specified, the > > comparison is performed by comparing the component data as a binary > > string using the memcmp() function as defined by [ISO_IEC_9899]. For > > strings with equal lengths the lowest string (memcmp) has higher > > precedence. For strings of different lengths, the common prefix is > > compared. If the common prefix is not equal the string with the > > lowest prefix has higher precedence. If the common prefix is equal, > > the longest string is considered to have higher precedence than the > > shorter one. > > > > I think that the intended comparison here is clear, but I was > > wondering whether this text should flag endian concerns at all. E.g. > > if the component data has been stored in memory and any numeric values > > have had endian conversion performed on them then a naive memcmp() > > could give a different answer. > > > > [Sue]: (treating as a "editorial) > > If you have a suggestion on endian statements, please let us know. > > We provide links to from other BGP specifications for the types. > > Appendix A was intended to provide an example of the flow rule > comparison. > > Do you think this helps? > > > > The example encodings in section 4 were intended to provide examples > > for implementers. > > > > > > >
- [Idr] Robert Wilton's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-r… Robert Wilton via Datatracker
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- Re: [Idr] Robert Wilton's Discuss on draft-ietf-i… Rob Wilton (rwilton)
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