Re: [Ietf-dkim] Headers that should not be automatically oversigned in a DKIM signature?

Dave Crocker <dcrocker@bbiw.net> Mon, 05 February 2024 22:03 UTC

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Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2024 14:02:53 -0800
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To: Jim Fenton <fenton@bluepopcorn.net>
Cc: ietf-dkim@ietf.org
References: <20240119192026.DEDFF810437D@ary.qy> <20240120000053.FrDLzS4U@steffen%sdaoden.eu> <3f72e0c3-d245-16f7-57b2-831bfa53efbd@taugh.com> <4F161749-91D6-4E2D-AF70-89C5F172B971@isdg.net> <64f0cfd3-9d86-4d5e-b213-d0e53972c65a@tana.it> <af70d974-b2cb-4ac3-af9f-f0461238ebbb@isdg.net> <0cb52576-67af-4248-9866-5d2e2ef1adfd@tana.it> <8EA4F7EB-CBAF-4CBA-AD3B-03ECC8B05172@isdg.net> <012291f4-5098-4e6b-b9b9-a7e1fd681138@tana.it> <e59bbaa2-945c-4ed8-85b4-3a79ebc8bfbd@dcrocker.net> <20240205212412.Kq4PkTNC@steffen%sdaoden.eu> <1c0a74ed-9366-4e11-9604-eab211a17046@dcrocker.net> <7035E051-7B4D-4CE1-A923-7BE59FC76195@bluepopcorn.net>
From: Dave Crocker <dcrocker@bbiw.net>
Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking
In-Reply-To: <7035E051-7B4D-4CE1-A923-7BE59FC76195@bluepopcorn.net>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf-dkim/r_SuVW5NdY3lWDhhPG5yX3LP2jU>
Subject: Re: [Ietf-dkim] Headers that should not be automatically oversigned in a DKIM signature?
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On 2/5/2024 1:56 PM, Jim Fenton wrote:
> nd you will also provide citations to refereed research about what you just asserted as well, yes?


Ahh, you want me to prove the negative. That's not exactly how these 
things go.

When someone says something works, the burden of documenting it is on them.

When someone says something does not work, it is sufficient to note that 
we have some decades of efforts and no serious documentation of 
efficacy.  And a very large scale example of it /not/ working, as I noted.

Bottom line: Claiming that we just need to train users better is a way 
of dodging any serious effort to deal with the topic.  The nature of 
human cognition, and the challenges of adequately encoding essential 
security-related information that is effective for 90% of users(*) works 
very aggressively against any claim that this is something that can 
usefully be dealt with by user training.

d/

(*)  When someone talks about 'average' users, one has left off (at 
least) half the user population...

-- 
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
mast:@dcrocker@mastodon.social