Re: [Ietf-languages] Sark and Sercquiais, and Norman French

I do not think I can help much with any efforts to add "Norman French" -- though doing so might be a good idea as there is a movement to revive Norman French in Normandy it seems, but I know squat. Here is what I found:

https://www.ouest-france.fr/normandie/caen-14000/normandie-des-mesures-pour-preserver-le-dialecte-regional-6404518
2019
"En 2008, une grande étude menée dans toute la Normandie recensait 20 000 individus maîtrisant les rudiments de la langue. C’est peu à l’échelle des trois millions d’habitants de la région."
20,000 out of three million Normans master the rudiments of Norman, says a [large? not sure how large] 2008 study.

"Des cafés normands vont voir le jour. Ceux qui le veulent vont pouvoir s’y retrouver pour converser dans la langue de notre région. Les premiers rendez-vous auront lieu dans la Manche, à Bricquebec, puis à Cherbourg, en septembre. Une grande bibliothèque du « parler normand » est en cours de réalisation. L’idée est de créer un glossaire des mots et expressions de notre dialecte ancestral."

Norman cafes [cafes to speak Norman in] will appear. Those who want to do so will be able to get together [in the cafes I guess] to converse in our regional language [Norman]. The first get-togethers will take place in La Manche, in Bricquebec, then in Cherbourg, in September. A great library of "spoken Norman" is in the process of being developed. The idea is to create a glossary of words and expressions . . .
(The cafes were supposed to have appeared in September of 2019/2020; I know nothing about this but see the URL below for a follow-up)

https://www.normandie.fr/la-sauvegarde-des-parlers-normands
2022 is a follow up -- the page was closing on my 2015 Windows 8 Nextbook with no keyboard; it is in French but you can access it and put it through google translate.

Well here is some:
""Le P’tit Colas en normaund" paru chez IMAV éditions, est disponible en librairie depuis le 24 septembre 2020. Il s’adresse aux enfants, à leurs parents ainsi qu’à tous les Normands qui ont à coeur de faire vivre leur patrimoine linguistique."
"Le Petit Nicolas en Normande" ("Little Nick/Nicholas in Norman") published with IMAV press, has been available in bookstore[s?] since September 24, 2020. It is aimed at kids, . . ." Cute series. I know it in French.

Best,
-- C. E. Whitehead
cewcathar@hotmail.com

________________________________
De : Ietf-languages <ietf-languages-bounces@ietf.org> de la part de Doug Ewell <doug@ewellic.org>
Envoyé : dimanche 29 janvier 2023 23:02
À : ietf-languages@ietf.org <ietf-languages@ietf.org>
Objet : [Ietf-languages] Sark and Sercquiais, and Norman French

There is about half a day left in the review period to add the Sark region subtag and to add Sercquiais to the ‘nrf’ language subtag.

I noticed that, although the ISO 639-3 code element [nrf] lists only the dialects Guernésiais and Jèrriais — because that is what was requested of ISO 639-3/RA in 2014 — “Norman French” per se is an active language in Normandy, with approximately 20,000 speakers (Wikipedia, after Ethnologue). That’s about ten times as many speakers as the Channel Islands dialects combined.

Frances Gillis-Webber and Sabine Tittel wrote in their paper, “A Framework for Shared Agreement of Language Tags beyond ISO 639” (2020):

> For the majority of French regional varieties, ISO 639 codes are
> not available, exceptions being ISO 639-3 ‘nrf’ for the Norman
> dialect[16], ‘pcd’ for Picard, and ‘wln’ for Walloon.
>
> [16] Falsely described as «Guernésiais, Jèrriais» which excludes
> the continental area.

While Gillis-Webber and Tittel promote some serious and damaging misunderstandings about BCP 47, in this paper and others that build on it — which I will cover in a future post — I believe they have a point in this case. The existing code element [xno] is for Anglo-Norman, which is not quite Norman French, but either a dialect of it or a separate language altogether.

Expanding ‘nrf’ in the Registry, by adding a Description field, to cover the parent language Norman French seems outside the authority of BCP 47, much more so than adding Sercquiais. At some point I may propose this update to ISO 639-3/RA instead. But I bring it up here in case others on the list feel otherwise, and believe it should be added to the current Sercquiais proposal.

--
Doug Ewell, CC, ALB | Lakewood, CO, US | ewellic.org

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