Re: [ietf-privacy] [Internet Policy] How a Radio Shack Robbery Could Spur a New Era in Digital Privacy

"John Levine" <johnl@taugh.com> Tue, 28 November 2017 16:18 UTC

Return-Path: <johnl@taugh.com>
X-Original-To: ietf-privacy@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf-privacy@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 699F5127B60 for <ietf-privacy@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 08:18:00 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.9
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DXNZU0DkfKSi for <ietf-privacy@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 08:17:59 -0800 (PST)
Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D87B1127517 for <ietf-privacy@ietf.org>; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 08:17:58 -0800 (PST)
Received: (qmail 40664 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2017 16:17:57 -0000
Received: from unknown (64.57.183.53) by gal.iecc.com with QMQP; 28 Nov 2017 16:17:57 -0000
Date: 28 Nov 2017 16:17:35 -0000
Message-ID: <20171128161735.18962.qmail@ary.lan>
From: "John Levine" <johnl@taugh.com>
To: ietf-privacy@ietf.org
In-Reply-To: <B6F1CF8B-E1CE-4EBA-A9C5-E473A7BC7C0A@mnot.net>
Organization:
X-Headerized: yes
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf-privacy/aYaX-kvNdTo6O2Nnv2D8yWxHJ2Y>
Subject: Re: [ietf-privacy] [Internet Policy] How a Radio Shack Robbery Could Spur a New Era in Digital Privacy
X-BeenThere: ietf-privacy@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: Internet Privacy Discussion List <ietf-privacy.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf-privacy>, <mailto:ietf-privacy-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf-privacy/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-privacy@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-privacy-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-privacy>, <mailto:ietf-privacy-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 16:18:00 -0000

In article <B6F1CF8B-E1CE-4EBA-A9C5-E473A7BC7C0A@mnot.net> you write:
>So, it seems like (IANAL) one way to read the situation is that the government is currently trying to
>get companies to forcefully take the expectation of privacy off the table for commonly used
>communication tools.

I don't think that's the issue here.  The telcos have files full of
plaintext location information.  The question is who can look at them.

>I wonder what the analysis is WRT back doors vs. "keep the plaintext" (what they currently seem to be
>pursuing). The latter seems to sidestep the second test above...

That's a whole different can of worms. Access to the contents of
conversations has always required a warrant, and certain parts of law
enforcement believe that they have the right to force everyone else to
provide those contents in plaintext, regardless of what the laws of
mathematics might say.

R's,
John