Re: As if you don't have enough to read..

John Leslie <john@jlc.net> Fri, 13 March 2015 17:46 UTC

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2015 13:46:02 -0400
From: John Leslie <john@jlc.net>
To: Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net>
Subject: Re: As if you don't have enough to read..
Message-ID: <20150313174602.GB44457@verdi>
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Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> wrote:
> John Leslie wrote:
> >Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> wrote:
>>
>>>It's a mutually interconnected address space.
>>    No, it isn't...
> 
> I think we have to disagree on this.

   Fine. I promise not to use that term.

   (Actually, I'm nearing the point where I'll stop for a while to
keep my Narten score under control.)

>>>Just like any telephone connected to the PSTN.
>> 
>> It's not remotely similar to a telephone connected to the PSTN.
>>
>> It's connected to a network connected to another network connected
>> to yet another network (et cetera), none of which have any fixed
>> contractual interconnections. Paths through the network of networks
>> come and go (mostly) without any human intervention or even awareness.

   "Fixed contractual interconnections" was a bad way to say what I
meant--namely that a packet is contractually guaranteed some priority
if forwarded to a particular node named in the contract. My bad...

> Have you actually looked at the internals of the PSTN, particularly 
> packetized underlying infrastructure, VoIP and all that?  Any long 
> distance phone call, particularly an international one, gets packetized, 
> and goes through lots of different networks.

   ...under ToS "guaranteeing" certain behavior...

> As to contractual relationships - what do you call backbone peering?

   Secret contracts -- which agree to exchange routes and accept some
packets based on those routes.

> The analogy is very direct.

   I think we'll disagree here, too.

>>> I've certainly seen the term used interchangeably with IP address in
>>> multiple contexts - mostly around DDoS attack on a particular "internet
>>> endpoint" or another, and I seem to recall a draft MIB for "internet
>>> endpoints" that essentially treated the term interchangeably with IP
>>> addresses,
>> 
>> Can you give an example?
> 
> Google is your friend:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ops-endpoint-mib-00
> and no less than Doug Comer uses the term in his classic 
> "Internetworking w/ TCP/IP"
> https://books.google.com/books?id=yhwfAQAAIAAJ&q=%22internet+endpoint%22+%22IP+address%22&dq=%22internet+endpoint%22+%22IP+address%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=OhgDVaarH4qlNoKggfAH&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAQ

   Unless I've missed something, Comer talks of "Internet endpoint address"
rather than "Internet endpoint".

   (I do agree Comer is a satisfactory authority.)

> (though he uses it in the context of a specific socket)

   A socket, in that context, _is_ a pair of addresses and other numbers
which "define" the socket.

>[snip]

   (May I suggest private email before we introduce any more new terms?)

--
John Leslie <john@jlc.net>

RE: As if you don't have enough to read.. John C Klensin
RE: As if you don't have enough to read.. Michel Py
Re: As if you don't have enough to read.. Brian E Carpenter
RE: As if you don't have enough to read.. Michel Py
Re: As if you don't have enough to read.. Richard Shockey
Re: As if you don't have enough to read.. Phillip Hallam-Baker
Re: As if you don't have enough to read.. John Levine
Re: As if you don't have enough to read.. joel jaeggli
Re: As if you don't have enough to read.. Henning G Schulzrinne
Re: As if you don't have enough to read.. Henning G Schulzrinne
Re: As if you don't have enough to read.. Richard Shockey
Re: As if you don't have enough to read.. Dan Harkins
As if you don't have enough to read.. Richard Shockey
Re: As if you don't have enough to read.. Dean Bogdanovic
Re: As if you don't have enough to read.. Brian E Carpenter
Re: As if you don't have enough to read.. l.wood
RE: As if you don't have enough to read.. Michel Py
Re: As if you don't have enough to read.. Phillip Hallam-Baker
Re: As if you don't have enough to read.. John Leslie
Re: As if you don't have enough to read.. Miles Fidelman
Re: As if you don't have enough to read.. John Leslie
Re: As if you don't have enough to read.. Scott Brim
Re: As if you don't have enough to read.. Miles Fidelman
Re: As if you don't have enough to read.. manning bill
Re: As if you don't have enough to read.. Richard Shockey
Re: As if you don't have enough to read.. John Leslie
Re: As if you don't have enough to read.. Miles Fidelman
RE: As if you don't have enough to read.. Michel Py
Re: As if you don't have enough to read.. John Leslie
Re: As if you don't have enough to read.. Ofer Inbar
Re: As if you don't have enough to read.. Phillip Hallam-Baker