Re: IP-based reputation services vs. DNSBL (long)
"Chris Lewis" <clewis@nortel.com> Tue, 11 November 2008 21:48 UTC
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Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 16:47:59 -0500
From: Chris Lewis <clewis@nortel.com>
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Subject: Re: IP-based reputation services vs. DNSBL (long)
References: <49172BCE.2000705@network-heretics.com> <alpine.LSU.2.00.0811111711310.14367@hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk> <4919C264.4000209@network-heretics.com> <4919C6FA.909@earthlink.net> <4919CB7C.3070604@leisi.net> <4919D1FC.9070801@earthlink.net>
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TS Glassey wrote: > Matthias > Any DNS BL Listing process where those listings are based on complaints > would create this. [spoofed IPs in DNSBLs] Few DNSBL listing processes rely on "complaints" as you put it. Certainly, none of the popular ones use them extensively, and most refuse them. Eg: the CBL explicitly refuses contributions of complaints. Most DNSBL listing processes rely _only_ on the peer address of the connection (either direct, or by header insertion by their own trusted systems). No-one has yet come up with a spam-economy-practical mechanism for spoofing source IP in TCP/IP (SMTP) sessions. There has been much research on the topic, and it all seems to indicate that there isn't one. I'll refer you to papers by Steven Bellovin, Marcus Leech and others. [UDP packet source IPs are trivially forgeable. But you can't send email by UDP packets. TCP/IP source IP is forgeable, but only at extremely high effort levels - few spammers would be satisfied with a throughput rate of a few spams per week (at most) per bot that works only against some destinations, when the return rate is measured in the single digits per million spams. If TCP/IP source spoofing were to become a spammer-practical method, the Internet has vastly bigger problems than flakey email.] The two most effective DNSBLs of all (CBL & PBL, both part of Spamhaus Zen) don't look at headers at all. The former takes its IPs directly from the TCP/IP stack of the MTA receiving the email (eg: getpeername()), and the latter is a policy assertion, largely by the verified owner of the IP ranges in question. IP spoofing is effectively impossible in one, and irrelevant to the second. _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
- IP-based reputation services vs. DNSBL (long) Keith Moore
- Re: IP-based reputation services vs. DNSBL (long) John Leslie
- RE: IP-based reputation services vs. DNSBL (long) Lawrence Rosen
- Re: IP-based reputation services vs. DNSBL (long) John Levine
- RE: IP-based reputation services vs. DNSBL (long) Lawrence Rosen
- Re: IP-based reputation services vs. DNSBL (long) Eliot Lear
- RE: IP-based reputation services vs. DNSBL (long) michael.dillon
- Re: IP-based reputation services vs. DNSBL (long) Keith Moore
- Re: IP-based reputation services vs. DNSBL (long) Eliot Lear
- Re: IP-based reputation services vs. DNSBL (long) Keith Moore
- Re: IP-based reputation services vs. DNSBL (long) Dave CROCKER
- Re: IP-based reputation services vs. DNSBL (long) Dave CROCKER
- Re: IP-based reputation services vs. DNSBL (long) Dave CROCKER
- RE: IP-based reputation services vs. DNSBL (long) Hallam-Baker, Phillip
- Re: IP-based reputation services vs. DNSBL (long) Sam Hartman
- Re: IP-based reputation services vs. DNSBL (long) TS Glassey
- Re: IP-based reputation services vs. DNSBL (long) Tony Finch
- Re: IP-based reputation services vs. DNSBL (long) Keith Moore
- Re: IP-based reputation services vs. DNSBL (long) Keith Moore
- Re: IP-based reputation services vs. DNSBL (long) TS Glassey
- Re: IP-based reputation services vs. DNSBL (long) Matthias Leisi
- Re: IP-based reputation services vs. DNSBL (long) Matthias Leisi
- Re: IP-based reputation services vs. DNSBL (long) Eliot Lear
- Re: IP-based reputation services vs. DNSBL (long) TS Glassey
- Re: IP-based reputation services vs. DNSBL (long) Chris Lewis
- RE: IP-based reputation services vs. DNSBL (long) Hallam-Baker, Phillip
- Re: IP-based reputation services vs. DNSBL (long) Chris Lewis
- Re: not spoofing, was IP-based reputation serviceā¦ John Levine
- RE: IP-based reputation services vs. DNSBL (long) Hallam-Baker, Phillip
- Re: IP-based reputation services vs. DNSBL (long) Chris Lewis
- RE: IP-based reputation services vs. DNSBL (long) Hallam-Baker, Phillip