Re: [alto] IPR Disclosure Carlos Pignataro's Statement about IPR related to draft-ietf-alto-deployments belonging to Alcatel Lucent

Michael,

I won’t comment on the content of the application, but please find a couple clarifications inline.

> On Jul 5, 2016, at 7:00 AM, Scharf, Michael (Nokia - DE) <michael.scharf@nokia.com> wrote:
> 
> Carlos,
> 
> I can only comment on the second document listed in the third-party IPR disclosure (http://www.google.com/patents/WO2016039798A1#npl-citations). I have not been aware of the first one. Regarding the second patent application, I am a bit confused by the intent of this IPR disclosure. 
> 

The intent of an IPR disclosure is to inform IETF WGs and participants. 

> To add some context: There is a publication, and actually that text may be easier to read:
> 
>  Michael Scharf, Gordon T. Wilfong, Lisa Zhang: "Sparsifying network topologies for application guidance", Proceedings of IFIP/IEEE IM 2015, May 2015, pages 234-242 (http://dl.ifip.org/db/conf/im/im2015/135438.pdf)
> 
> That paper refers to draft-ietf-alto-deployments at various places to explain the background of ALTO (reference [4]). So, it is not surprise that draft-ietf-alto-deployments is cited in the patent application. I am not a lawyer. However, if I had assumed that an action according to RFC 3979 is required in this situation, an IPR disclosure would obviously have been submitted.
> 
> In general, draft-ietf-alto-deployments is a long informational document that surveys quite a number of use cases and technologies. Given that widely used technologies such as CDN optimization and methods to obtain dynamic connected-network topology via nodes are mentioned, it would be a huge surprise to me there was no other IPR "somehow" related to some wording in draft-ietf-alto-deployments, including e.g. IPR owned by Cisco Technology, Inc. However, I am not sure what value IPR disclosures have for such an informational document that does not give normative guidance.
> 

Analysis is for the WG participants and potential implications (if any) to the WG (i.e., the IETF makes no determination about validity, informed decision, etc.)

> Regarding the process, I am actually surprised that a patent search has been performed as part of an OPS-DIR review, given e.g. what is written in RFC 5706 Appendix A. And I think the wording of RFC 3979 Section 6.1.3 is that a third party IPR disclosure is "encouraged". So far I have assumed that this wording does not imply "mandatory". Maybe the IESG can better explain that?

This comment is concerning to me. I performed an OPS-Dir review of draft-ietf-alto-deployments based-15 solely on Operational considerations, and RFC 5706 Appendix A. (By the way, I have not seen a response to that review.) However, I have *not* (of course!) performed a patent search. I do not understand the basis of you making that comment. If I am looking for IETF LC comments on specific operational issues, and Google search serves those hits over and over (which someone cannot unsee), I think the responsible thing is to disclose, and it is up for the WG to evaluate.

Thanks,

— Carlos.

> 
> Michael
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) [mailto:cpignata@cisco.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 1:48 AM
> To: Mirja Kühlewind
> Cc: IETF discussion list; draft-ietf-alto-deployments@ietf.org; alto@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [alto] IPR Disclosure Carlos Pignataro's Statement about IPR related to draft-ietf-alto-deployments belonging to Alcatel Lucent
> 
> Hi, Mirja,
> 
> One clarification, for the record, inline.
> 
>> On Jul 4, 2016, at 11:47 AM, Mirja Kühlewind <mirja.kuehlewind@tik.ee.ethz.ch> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> find below an IPR disclosure that was filed last week related to draft-ietf-alto-deployments. This is a third-party disclosure for a patent application that lists this draft as ‚document to be considered related‘. See:
>> 
>> https://data.epo.org/publication-server/rest/v1.0/publication-dates/20
>> 150902/patents/EP2913979NWA1/document.pdf
>> 
>> The IETF last call for draft-ietf-alto-deployments was performed between June 7 and June 21, 2016, while the IPR disclosure was submitted afterwards (as reaction to the OPS-DIR review).
>> 
> 
> I was actually the OPS-Dir Reviewer assigned to draft-ietf-alto-deployments-15.
> 
> I submitted my OPS-Dir review delayed, after the IETF LC ended, because I was on vacation (and unreachable) when I received the OPS-Dir review assignment. As part of my review, as I came across those two (not only the one you include above) published patent applications potentially relating to the subject matter as indicated in non-patent citations, I had to submit that 3rd party disclosure.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> — Carlos.
> 
>> If this disclosure raises any concerns regarding the publication of this draft as RFC, please state your opinion on the alto@ietf.org mailing.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Mirja - responsible AD
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 27.06.2016 um 17:42 schrieb IETF Secretariat <ietf-ipr@ietf.org>:
>>> 
>>> Dear Martin Stiemerling, Sebastian Kiesel, Stefano Previdi, Michael Scharf, Hans Seidel:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> An IPR disclosure that pertains to your Internet-Draft entitled "ALTO 
>>> Deployment Considerations" (draft-ietf-alto-deployments) was 
>>> submitted to the IETF Secretariat on  and has been posted on the 
>>> "IETF Page of Intellectual Property Rights Disclosures" 
>>> (https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2814/). The title of the IPR 
>>> disclosure is "Carlos Pignataro's Statement about IPR related to draft-ietf-alto-deployments belonging to Alcatel Lucent"
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thank you
>>> 
>>> IETF Secretariat
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> alto mailing list
>>> alto@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/alto
>> 
> 