Re: And a third [was: A couple of opinion pieces]
Leif Johansson <leifj@mnt.se> Mon, 15 July 2019 18:19 UTC
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Subject: Re: And a third [was: A couple of opinion pieces]
From: Leif Johansson <leifj@mnt.se>
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Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2019 20:19:36 +0200
Cc: Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net>, IETF discussion list <ietf@ietf.org>
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To: Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx>
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Skickat från min iPhone > 15 juli 2019 kl. 20:15 skrev Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx>: > > > >> On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 1:37 PM Leif Johansson <leifj@mnt.se> wrote: >> >> >> Skickat från min iPhone >> >> > 15 juli 2019 kl. 18:22 skrev Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net>: >> > >> > Brian, >> > >> > This is an interesting piece, and I share your assessment of the IAB's >> > situation in the late 90's. But I continue to be very skeptical of your >> > references to a "much wider community". >> > >> > To assess that, I just did a small exercise of listing all the RFC >> > published in the "independent" stream in 2018. There are 14 such RFC: >> > 8507, 8494, 8493, 8492, 8483, 8479, 8433, 8409, 8374, 8369, 8367, 8351, >> > 8328 and 8324. 8369 is an April's fool RFC. RFC 8367 and 8369 were >> > published on 1 April 2018. I looked at the authors of these RFC, and did >> > a quick check: are these outsiders, part of a "wider community" or are >> > these people who are also contributing to the IETF. The overwhelming >> > response is, "insiders". Pretty much all the authors are or were >> > involved in the IETF, many of them with a prominent track record. There >> > are just 2 exceptions, a single RFC in which only 3 of the 5 authors are >> > well associated with the IETF. >> > >> > There may well be a wider community of people who could publish >> > independent RFC, or for that matter who could participate in the IETF. >> > But data analysis does not indicate that these people participate in the >> > RFC series. >> > >> >> cf my post elsewhere on this list on how digital identitiy development moved away from pkix (and the IETF) >> >> This seems like a perfect illustration of the streetlight effect (I admit I had to make google find the name for me). >> >> We have no knowledge of why other communities choose not to publish in the RFC series because we don’t have data about any other communities. > > This seems to presume that it would be desirable for other communities to publish in the RFC series. (I presume you mean, "other than the IETF/IAB/IRTF community".) Is that your belief, and if so, could you say why? No I don’t A more interesting question is this: what happened to make the openidc (to pick a random example) not even consider making RFCs their publication ”format”. > > --Richard > > >> >> qed - unless... you go talk to some other SDOs and similar organisations... almost like a liason-function might. >> >> Cheers Leif >> >> > -- Christian Huitema >> > >> > >> >> On 7/14/2019 9:19 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >> >> Various recent discussions here have made me think that the IETF is >> >> at a point where some fundamentals in the standards process, the >> >> publication process, and its basic organization need to be re-evaluated >> >> and perhaps changed. The goal of course would be to make the IETF more >> >> useful, not change for its own sake. >> >> >> >> It's above my pay grade to decide whether to start an organized >> >> approach to this, but in addition to the two opinion pieces mentioned >> >> below, please also consider this: >> >> https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~brian/CommentaryIAB.pdf >> >> This is about the institution, not the people. Please read the opening >> >> disclaimer, and of course comments are welcome, as always. >> >> >> >> Regards >> >> Brian Carpenter >> >> >> >>> On 20-Jun-19 16:24, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >> >>> Hi, >> >>> >> >>> The first document is early input to the 2019-2020 NomCom and to >> >>> all those thinking of volunteering for it, or for any of the >> >>> open leadership positions: >> >>> >> >>> Some Thoughts on IETF Community Leadership >> >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-carpenter-community-leaders-01 >> >>> >> >>> The second one is also relevant to NomCom, but also to those who >> >>> will be involved in the process of identifying the future RFC Series >> >>> Editor, and to those who care about the IETF standards process in general: >> >>> >> >>> Request for Comments >> >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-carpenter-request-for-comments-01 >> >>> >> >>> Comments are most welcome, but these documents are both personal opinions. >> >>> >> >>> Regards >> >>> Brian Carpenter >> >>> >> > >>
- A couple of opinion pieces Brian E Carpenter
- Re: A couple of opinion pieces Michael Richardson
- And a third [was: A couple of opinion pieces] Brian E Carpenter
- Re: And a third [was: A couple of opinion pieces] Melinda Shore
- Re: And a third [was: A couple of opinion pieces] Jari Arkko
- Re: And a third [was: A couple of opinion pieces] Christian Huitema
- Re: And a third [was: A couple of opinion pieces] Leif Johansson
- Re: And a third [was: A couple of opinion pieces] Richard Barnes
- Re: And a third [was: A couple of opinion pieces] Leif Johansson
- Re: And a third [was: A couple of opinion pieces] Leif Johansson
- Re: And a third [was: A couple of opinion pieces] Richard Barnes
- Re: And a third [was: A couple of opinion pieces] Leif Johansson
- Re: And a third [was: A couple of opinion pieces] Melinda Shore
- Re: And a third [was: A couple of opinion pieces] Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: And a third [was: A couple of opinion pieces] Keith Moore
- Re: And a third [was: A couple of opinion pieces] Leif Johansson
- Re: And a third [was: A couple of opinion pieces] Keith Moore
- Re: And a third [was: A couple of opinion pieces] Jari Arkko
- RE: And a third [was: A couple of opinion pieces] Michael Thornburgh
- Re: And a third [was: A couple of opinion pieces] Brian E Carpenter
- Re: And a third [was: A couple of opinion pieces] Jari Arkko
- Re: And a third [was: A couple of opinion pieces] lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk
- Re: And a third [was: A couple of opinion pieces] Leif Johansson
- Re: And a third [was: A couple of opinion pieces] Pete Resnick
- Re: And a third [was: A couple of opinion pieces] Leif Johansson
- Re: And a third [was: A couple of opinion pieces] Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: And a third [was: A couple of opinion pieces] Pete Resnick
- Re: And a third [was: A couple of opinion pieces] Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: [105attendees] Fwd: And a third [was: A coupl… Ted Hardie
- Re: [105attendees] Fwd: And a third [was: A coupl… Ted Hardie