Re: Revised proposed IETF LLC Community Engagement Policy

["Joel M. Halpern" <[e-mail]>]

Jay, I think it would be good if the Volunteering policy was explicit 
that this restrictive clause would take LLC board action.  And I would 
expect it to say that the LLC would state this if possible when the role 
is defined.  Just so everyone is on the same page.  (I dislike vague 
clauses, but at least if we know who that helps.)

Yours,
Joel

On 10/14/2020 10:41 PM, Jay Daley wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 15/10/2020, at 3:40 PM, Jay Daley <[e-mail] 
>> <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 15/10/2020, at 2:06 AM, Joel M. Halpern <[e-mail] 
>>> <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thank you for the improvements.
>>> One question I did not think to ask originally.
>>>
>>> The policy says "Some Covered Roles may require Covered Individuals 
>>> to be explicitly prohibited from acting as community volunteers." 
>>>  That seems to be deliberately vague.  Who decides about this?  How 
>>> is it communicated / appealed / understood?  Can you explain why the 
>>> clause is needed?
>>
>> Yes it is deliberately vague and part of the reason for that is the 
>> feedback received from others that we may want to keep something like 
>> that in place.  The clause is basically there in case there is a clear 
>> conflict of interest that needs to be addressed and it the clause is 
>> not there now then adding it later becomes considerably more 
>> difficult.  I think it’s a reasonable safeguard should that become 
>> necessary.
> 
> Sorry, I forgot to say that this would probably be an LLC board decision 
> given the importance of this type of action to the community.
> 
> Jay
> 
>>
>> BTW see my next email about the relationship between this and the COI 
>> policy.
>>
>> Jay
>>
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>> Joel
>>>
>>> On 10/13/2020 11:09 PM, Jay Daley wrote:
>>>> Thanks again for all of the feedback.  A revised draft is available 
>>>> [1] that addresses all of the open issues and feedback on this 
>>>> revised draft is now sought.  Please note the following:
>>>> 1.  The contentious text has been removed
>>>> 2.  One section, now called "Volunteering in the IETF" contains a 
>>>> minimal set of provisions around volunteering.  This is almost 
>>>> identical to a previous section that was not the subject of feedback 
>>>> and has been adjusted to apply to all Covered Individuals with the 
>>>> meaning otherwise unchanged. The key provisions are:
>>>> - an acknowledgement that anyone can also be a community volunteer
>>>> - an acknowledgement that some contracts may have restrictions due 
>>>> to the nature of the contract
>>>> - a requirement to avoid conflict of interest from volunteering
>>>> - a requirement to make it clear to people what role someone is 
>>>> engaging in
>>>> 3.  The phrase "acting as an individual" is not used as there is an 
>>>> argument that some roles do not allow people to step out of them 
>>>> (mine for example [2]) and this way avoids trying to resolve that or 
>>>> put rules around it.
>>>> 4.  The important sections on "Community Feedback" and "Engagement 
>>>> Mechanisms" remain unchanged.
>>>> As a reminder, please provide feedback by 26 October 2020 00:00 UTC 
>>>> using any of the following methods:
>>>> * Raising an issue on the Github repository [3]
>>>> * Direct to the IETF Executive Director [e-mail] 
>>>> <mailto:[e-mail]>
>>>> * Direct to the IETF LLC Board (not including the IETF Executive 
>>>> Director) [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>>>> * To [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>list
>>>> [1] 
>>>> https://github.com/ietf-llc/community-engagement-policy-consultation/blob/latest-updates-from-consultation/DRAFT%20Community%20Engagement%20Policy.md
>>>> [2] 
>>>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/6ZgAe1stcpFPlsx3SXOxEEppkLs/
>>>> [3] 
>>>> https://github.com/ietf-llc/community-engagement-policy-consultation/issues
>>>> Jay
>>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Jay Daley
>> IETF Executive Director
>> [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
> 
> -- 
> Jay Daley
> IETF Executive Director
> [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>