Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic
Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> Sun, 03 July 2011 05:06 UTC
Return-Path: <randy@psg.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5774021F8734; Sat, 2 Jul 2011 22:06:42 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.574
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.574 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.025, BAYES_00=-2.599]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oVrOghwHmuaX; Sat, 2 Jul 2011 22:06:41 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::36]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B10FD21F8733; Sat, 2 Jul 2011 22:06:41 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=rair.psg.com.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <randy@psg.com>) id 1QdEtC-000Foo-0O; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 05:06:38 +0000
Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 14:06:36 +0900
Message-ID: <m2mxgw9cmb.wl%randy@psg.com>
From: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
To: Ronald Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>
Subject: Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic
In-Reply-To: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D3F3507F14@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net>
References: <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D3F3507EDA@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> <CAKD1Yr2Smvm0RY5iV2y06wD=RRz-uW4VbaaairnoAkSR7zLdtg@mail.gmail.com> <m2y60g9xiw.wl%randy@psg.com> <13205C286662DE4387D9AF3AC30EF456D3F3507F14@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net>
User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/22.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI)
MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka")
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 05 Jul 2011 07:45:25 -0700
Cc: IPv6 Ops WG <v6ops@ietf.org>, IETF Discussion <ietf@ietf.org>, Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo@google.com>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 05:06:42 -0000
> 1) "as measured on the real internet, not the ietf bar, 6to4 sucks caterpillar snot" > 2) "perhaps that minority was also vocal in the back room" > 3) "yes, but that will be a year from now. in the ietf, delay is one form of death" > > Responses follow: > > 1) While not stated so colorfully, draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-advisory made > this point. It has been approved for publication. but then do we not draw the conclusion that therefore publishing draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-disgusting is the correct approach? > 2) While there was no back-room activity, an appeal had been filed at > the WG level. Since WG consensus was stronger than IETF consensus, > it is reasonable to assume that the appeal would be escalated to > the IESG level if it was not approved at the WG level. so these days people who do not get their way use the nuclear option? we raised kids. when those tactics resulted in "we are so sorry you do not like the result, but that's the result" they soon stopped. > So, any way you look at it, there would be delays. welcome to the ietf, where process is our most important product. > 3) The new document may not take a year to publish. Since it is a > short draft, it could be produced in a few days. Once it is > produced, we could immediately initiate a WG last call and an IETF > last call immediately after that. So, we might be talking about a > six-week delay. so process this one in six weeks, please. > Now, I have a question for you, Lorenzo and Doug. If our goal is to > take 6-to-4 off of the Internet, does not disabling it by default > solve most of the problem? AFAIKS, very few users would enable it and > service providers would not be economically incented to support 6-to-4 > relay routers. the economic incentive to half-assed service providers is that it gives an excuse not to deploy ipv6. the response of these folk will be web pages instructing their users how to turn 6to4 on. randy
- draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Ronald Bonica
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Cameron Byrne
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Keith Moore
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Keith Moore
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Doug Barton
- RE: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Ronald Bonica
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Doug Barton
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Doug Barton
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Noel Chiappa
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Melinda Shore
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Keith Moore
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Keith Moore
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Keith Moore
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Keith Moore
- RE: draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Michel Py
- RE: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Ronald Bonica
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Joel Jaeggli
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Cameron Byrne
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Doug Barton
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Keith Moore
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Keith Moore
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Joel Jaeggli
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Keith Moore
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Masataka Ohta
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Keith Moore
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Keith Moore
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Keith Moore
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Keith Moore
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Keith Moore
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Doug Barton
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic SM
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Keith Moore
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Keith Moore
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Cameron Byrne
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Keith Moore
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Keith Moore
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Keith Moore
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Noel Chiappa
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Noel Chiappa
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Keith Moore
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Keith Moore
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Cameron Byrne
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Keith Moore
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Keith Moore
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Tim Chown
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Keith Moore
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic TJ
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Keith Moore
- Re:draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Roger Jørgensen
- RE: draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Ronald Bonica
- RE: draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Noel Chiappa
- RE: draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Ronald Bonica
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Mark Andrews
- 6to4 to Experimental? (was: Re: [v6ops] draft-iet… Keith Moore
- RE: draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Noel Chiappa
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Robert Raszuk
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Robert Raszuk
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Randy Bush
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Erik Kline
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Randy Bush
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Erik Kline
- RE: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Frank Bulk
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Randy Bush
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Ray Hunter
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Randy Bush
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Ray Hunter
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Randy Bush
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Arturo Servin
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Arturo Servin
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- RE: draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Ronald Bonica
- RE: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Martin Rex
- draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-advisory dependency on draf… C. M. Heard
- Re: draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-advisory dependency on … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Randy Bush
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic james woodyatt
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Doug Barton
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Martin Rex
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Doug Barton
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Martin Rex
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Scott Kitterman
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Martin Rex
- RE: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Yoav Nir
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Doug Barton
- Re: draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Roger Jørgensen
- Re: draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Ole Troan
- Re: 6to4 to Experimental? (was: Re: [v6ops] draft… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic Keith Moore
- Re: [v6ops] 6to4 to Experimental? (was: Re: draft… Turchanyi Geza
- Re: [v6ops] 6to4 to Experimental? (was: Re: draft… Mohacsi Janos
- Dropping 2002::/16 considered very harmful Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Dropping 2002::/16 considered very harmful Cameron Byrne