IETF Logo Mail Archive

RE: [113attendees] HotRFC at IETF-113 -- 2nd call for participation

"Border, John" <John.Border@hughes.com> Tue, 22 March 2022 11:29 UTC

Return-Path: <prvs=7080d887c8=john.border@hughes.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE6D23A1114; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 04:29:22 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.109
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.109 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=hughes.com header.b=BVrY/gT9; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=hughes.com header.b=NBRzqZJD
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qjyJopLM3Oxx; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 04:29:17 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx0a-00115402.pphosted.com (mx0a-00115402.pphosted.com [148.163.150.3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 78E3C3A110D; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 04:29:13 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from pps.filterd (m0118426.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0a-00115402.pphosted.com (8.16.1.2/8.16.1.2) with ESMTP id 22M99IE3019706; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 11:29:12 GMT
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hughes.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=3152018; bh=uFdjdqaSJV14wmM2qhCe3w9od2XV8RonY8uao96dJ3c=; b=BVrY/gT9TiAmOjKzxD1aWdjj752+P7oTibawzQU1Gr4isNSnDIYDGp7w1Ofr9RyjqfUi 3tG83Y1LATkRyEtMW7fV3GU/WZoXD/nZ9RzeB9TMa14rprn4eJEEwGytxrbTJ1OeH65N hgfkLGBMFh1vjNmWwvymHAtdwjBdxU3wdBtT3OiTJu3C5N9Ce6T3nTXbwbedNA7ecyuK AGz+NuVcBG/CQDIE2FeUn128WBxyRBI/+7pasl8EXj6vJpoV8Gg5CWF8c6pDzwRuh416 vwIGJ7wobJtOhoKIlNQXhvdRS7hdYD0s1St5+J/NGdqsggaLmxDHb43nrn0xvq2wgYNU vQ==
Received: from nam11-bn8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn8nam11lp2177.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.58.177]) by mx0a-00115402.pphosted.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3ew7hb501t-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 22 Mar 2022 11:29:12 +0000
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=jwrT0xv2J8swvCR/0MobVZMYRVMznpCGIa5KMNBMlnOykJJaYRjl1h/6zBYvIJ+f9Hj3Sgs3EB+nysUkujBIQeLzsidHcZpFL0y66KwY7vzitnkumGOOD7038JdhJ344MWkjw3uEx6eMdh2sjef4vQGHHakprDjGjiawG7u8sWSz9EnwHf3WzijkNZC6L8TEmVEztQBp+swrwdG0REIgsiRX7CETkIxuKwEe2xAWLPO+f96hbli1YEi9C9aE2bScah2AO/ALbiKhQ6guywZBm1d50taPrRJkU5yKj6J4f59dOqy6N6Bel7pyMdAPGLQvs4di4lURFWSIezdxNU8wFw==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=uFdjdqaSJV14wmM2qhCe3w9od2XV8RonY8uao96dJ3c=; b=SD7Md1DmhPkb3oF2LYKPr5Y+dR5IDLx99R5g4kwaEehdo0mkQcN6mOz34Fgeq1Vch5D/qCxtb9zRb9shKyv2DvMLr/tsqeuboDou7RFbKkk/zvTcDx80vPDsMMREN0uWn9Yoy29O3Cn3QePJC5r1TpbAyLoc0B3K/8phHVt069ZVJrJHYY5K5PeGRl1KUiVKIgPytdixTswAeb8HJMv+0x3MDOBF1KT+jma1Q7sjKYstayhv99CHS2DMPd0Pj+ZwclSPwEG8j01mpCJCBVfBK69BbZ3Ehb7U/CfXAEotB+3CJXa/+HhBfcEn/1WJmc7IrESVckB31JktZpDXB2lGkg==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=hughes.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=hughes.com; dkim=pass header.d=hughes.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hughes.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=uFdjdqaSJV14wmM2qhCe3w9od2XV8RonY8uao96dJ3c=; b=NBRzqZJDBF0b+8LgBfV/g/1hIz/TgkcvxftnqblR/SP+UNNMnMm1mxQVPSCXCqk0ZaQuy4aWBFb7GUZog5HBysihHKjlJsRZ6yspYJsCjb/NlzjN+QG6tWtl838V2AowsVdmf0x2uoRgNSYCKdYqQyIUFc7tOQqwBowsoaZT8dQ=
Received: from MN2PR11MB3647.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:ec::26) by BN7PR11MB2689.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:406:b2::32) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.5081.15; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 11:29:09 +0000
Received: from MN2PR11MB3647.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::3827:bea6:64dc:dbf7]) by MN2PR11MB3647.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::3827:bea6:64dc:dbf7%3]) with mapi id 15.20.5081.023; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 11:29:09 +0000
From: "Border, John" <John.Border@hughes.com>
To: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
CC: IRTF Discuss <irtf-discuss@irtf.org>, WG Chairs <wgchairs@ietf.org>, 113 attendees <113attendees@ietf.org>, IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, IETF Discussion <ietf@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [113attendees] HotRFC at IETF-113 -- 2nd call for participation
Thread-Topic: [113attendees] HotRFC at IETF-113 -- 2nd call for participation
Thread-Index: AQHYN6qzohGCwU8nM0+Pv1BW5AbFvKzKh6IAgACveoCAABWMAIAAA+iQ
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 11:29:09 +0000
Message-ID: <MN2PR11MB3647472520E332594ED468D290179@MN2PR11MB3647.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAD62q9U=CpSi-4BooQfdM7dc0FMCiqSAyCu-fVe2ckrQP7fmtw@mail.gmail.com> <CAKKJt-dOLf=+9=UmRC5bPUEk-Bj01uBWB8cy4EK02mjwA5yM1g@mail.gmail.c om> <742921.1647943041@dooku> <7B65A69DADBC0BCC329CF059@PSB>
In-Reply-To: <7B65A69DADBC0BCC329CF059@PSB>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 266f9ac3-d3ec-4e75-5d0b-08da0bf72e8e
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BN7PR11MB2689:EE_
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <BN7PR11MB2689C143C832DCA8577BF62F90179@BN7PR11MB2689.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:MN2PR11MB3647.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230001)(366004)(8936002)(5660300002)(186003)(26005)(52536014)(7696005)(38070700005)(53546011)(2906002)(9686003)(6506007)(33656002)(966005)(38100700002)(122000001)(83380400001)(86362001)(55016003)(66946007)(66556008)(66476007)(76116006)(71200400001)(66446008)(64756008)(4326008)(8676002)(110136005)(316002)(54906003)(508600001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: 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
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: hughes.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: MN2PR11MB3647.namprd11.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 266f9ac3-d3ec-4e75-5d0b-08da0bf72e8e
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 22 Mar 2022 11:29:09.1162 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 0e1f3187-4610-4ce2-bad1-b92f4ba36ab3
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: C/Ts3UarJhgYkiebhOZw20ujq65XR2YRzIBsDWDqg5nvmixqs8Qc6VnY346HsKUCBJ4P1GtCjalgYMt1j0PrhA==
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN7PR11MB2689
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.205,Aquarius:18.0.850,Hydra:6.0.425,FMLib:17.11.64.514 definitions=2022-03-22_03,2022-03-22_01,2022-02-23_01
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/rgv7Q2KKsNqGMcp3QTgBkHOjkrw>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 11:29:23 -0000

It is more like a convenient, centralized place to announce Bar BOFs...

-----Original Message-----
From: 113attendees <113attendees-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of John C Klensin
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2022 7:14 AM
To: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
Cc: IRTF Discuss <irtf-discuss@irtf.org>; WG Chairs <wgchairs@ietf.org>; 113 attendees <113attendees@ietf.org>; IESG <iesg@ietf.org>; IETF Discussion <ietf@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [113attendees] HotRFC at IETF-113 -- 2nd call for participation

**EXTERNAL EMAIL** 



--On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 10:57 +0100 Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote:

>...
> I tried the HotRFC last time, via gather.town, with the  recorded 
>videos and questions on the floor.  It's entirely a  different thing, 
>and I think that actually, it is usefully  complementary.

> I will note that *DISPATCH is also become more of a thing.
> 
> While previously we often had a 1st non-WG forming BOF followed by ML 
> and charter discussions, we now have:
>       HotRFC -> *DISPATCH -> WG-forming BOF

> That's okay with me, but it goes to the RFC2026 is wrong debate, and 
> we should probably tell people about this more explicitely.  That 
> doesn't mean we have to freeze this
> process: but we do need to tell people it's happening.

I actually don't think it interacts much with 2026 although I do wonder whether how much introducing additional steps into the process --whether they involve 

	a non-WG-forming BOF -> ML discussion -> charter
	proposal -> a WG-forming BOF -> more discussion and
	charter revision -> chartering

or

	discussion, *DISPATCH, -> WG-forming BOF -> charter
	discussion -> chartering

(with the initial discussion in the second case taking many
forms) -- is contributing to general delays and some people's sense that it is impossible to get real work done in the IETF in any efficient and timely way.

While, as work-proposing mechanisms, the tone is certainly different (especially along the fear of being attacked dimension you mention), I'm not sure whether HotRFC is significantly different from the BarBOFs of yesteryear.

    john
 




--
113attendees mailing list
113attendees@ietf.org
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/113attendees__;!!Emaut56SYw!ns3s2cRVvygXRTSlQ4Jl0eVwnu3vQnQTmodGTvmEhTPw34vtRcS6pUwM9FAO0TV-8g$

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email