Re: draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis

[Barry Leiba <[e-mail]>]

On Sun, Sep 1, 2013 at 5:50 AM, Scott Kitterman <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>>I think it's particularly incumbent on native English speakers to
>>avoid highly idiomatic or stylized language - English that is not
>>taught to non-native speakers.  It may be better to say something
>>along those lines, although I don't think you can go too wrong
>>in remind people to communicate clearly.  (This is not entirely
>>unrelated to the seeking consensus issue)
>
> That's true,  but the emphasis is in the wrong place.
>
> I think the behavior standard is "try to communicate clearly".  What you
> describe for native speakers is an example of things that help do that.

I think Scott has put this perfectly, and it's exactly right.  The
main point is clear communication.  Everything else is advice about
how to achieve that.

On Sun, Sep 1, 2013 at 9:47 AM, Abdussalam Baryun
<[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> I always think the problem of not understanding a message in IETF is
> not the fault of the transmitter, but it is the receiver's fault. The
> receiver SHOULD make more efforts to understand, or send a reply to
> request clarifications (specially in IETF WGs when discussing
> technical issues). The fault cannot be the used-language or the way
> the language is used, but the fault can be low performance of
> communication or low purpose of such work at receiver end.

I agree that the "receivers" should (and generally do, in my
observation, but see below) try hard to understand the "transmitter".
That said, I can assure you that if I should try to communicate with
you in your native language, all fault in the total communication
failure that would ensue would be mine.

We're all individuals, and we have different tolerance levels -- some
of us are more patient than others in trying to understand.  That
said, this is also a collaborative environment, where everyone needs
to do her part.  Native speakers need to use a level of English that's
likely to be accessible to non-natives, and to do the best they can to
understand what others are saying.  Non-native speakers need to do
what they can to improve their English skills.  Everyone has
responsibility.

Barry