Re: [EAI] [IETF] Barriers to Deployment [ was: Content Issues]

John C Klensin <> Mon, 17 October 2016 04:23 UTC

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Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2016 00:22:54 -0400
From: John C Klensin <>
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Cc: Harish Chowdhary <>,
Subject: Re: [EAI] [IETF] Barriers to Deployment [ was: Content Issues]
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--On Sunday, October 16, 2016 20:01 +0000 wrote:

> I have also been following the discussion of the subscription
> to email lists.   I think that joining such lists is one of
> the important uses of email addresses.  I was just talking
> this morning to one of the not-very-computer-literate older
> ladies in the neighborhood and she was telling me about how
> useful she found the neighborhood email group to be.  So, I
> can see that this is something many people (not just IETFers!)
> probably find useful.

Note that there are a couple of things that are very different
between a neighborhood email group and the IETF list.   One is
that the same requirements for transparency and accountability
typically do not apply, at least in the same way.  The other is
closely related to what at least some of us have believed all
along would be the normal deployment model for SMTPUTF8, by
deployment within communities, particularly communities with a
small number of shared primary languages, who conclude that they
need it.   If everyone within a particular community is using
non-ASCII addresses, typically addresses based on the same
language and script, all of the very hard problems about how to
design, e.g., globally-adapted MUAs that are localized to the
language and culture of particular communities (not just the
right script) essentially go away and having to get everyone to
upgrade to make a given list with non-ASCII addresses work
disappear or become much more focused.

> Harish & I will put our heads together and put together some
> bullet points on the potential "Barriers to Deployment" draft
> and then come back to the list for comments on major issues to
> be covered.
> Meanwhile, Harish is trying to get in touch with Don at the
> UASG group.
> I will also ask some of the other people from Latin America /
> Africa who may be interested in this topic to join the IMA
> email list.


> We want to schedule a Bar BoF to discuss these topics in
> Seoul.  I am thinking Thursday morning breakfast meeting.
> Maybe people can respond to me / Harish privately to let us
> know if there are conflicts.   The title of the Bar BoF will
> be "Deployment Issues for IDN / IEA".   This way, we can start
> working on at least consolidating the problems.  Then, work
> quietly to resolve them.
> Thoughts? 

Note that some of the people who have been contributing to this
discussion rarely attend IETF meetings face to face these days.
So think about whether their involvement would be useful enough
for you to arrange for remote participation.