Re: [EAI] Comments on draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-07
John C Klensin <klensin@jck.com> Fri, 11 September 2009 00:33 UTC
Return-Path: <klensin@jck.com>
X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 923093A6A7F for <ima@core3.amsl.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 17:33:42 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.549
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.549 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.050, BAYES_00=-2.599]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A7Beb27dB5iJ for <ima@core3.amsl.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 17:33:41 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from bs.jck.com (ns.jck.com [209.187.148.211]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 922EF3A68E9 for <ima@ietf.org>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 17:33:39 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=localhost) by bs.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Mlu5O-000IgI-3t; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:33:58 -0400
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:33:57 -0400
From: John C Klensin <klensin@jck.com>
To: barryleiba@computer.org, Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com>
Message-ID: <24A912F1C6216F22166686E4@PST.JCK.COM>
In-Reply-To: <6c9fcc2a0909101550i13d01c93tca7be5bccbf1c0b6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.2.20090830222724.034fdb30@elandnews.com> <6c9fcc2a0909010725m9f1a4c2x159fb13d05df5f91@mail.gmail.com> <4A9D9878.7010302@isode.com> <p06250105c6c5c5428ce9@172.16.1.8> <6c9fcc2a0909031518v3e826ff2je1b622a6acfdd59a@mail.gmail.com> <4AA96B90.7070007@isode.com> <6c9fcc2a0909101550i13d01c93tca7be5bccbf1c0b6@mail.gmail.com>
X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
Cc: Pete Resnick <presnick@qualcomm.com>, EAI WG <ima@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [EAI] Comments on draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-07
X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" <ima.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima>, <mailto:ima-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ima>
List-Post: <mailto:ima@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ima-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima>, <mailto:ima-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 00:33:42 -0000
FWIW, I agree with Barry's analysis and like this solution. john --On Thursday, September 10, 2009 18:50 -0400 Barry Leiba <barryleiba.mailing.lists@gmail.com> wrote: >> (As the responsible AD) After rereading various pieces of the >> document, I agree this is not clear. >> >> >> (As a WG participant) Here is my understanding how things >> should work: >> >> UTF8=USER is useful by itself, so I think it should be >> independent of all other UTF8* capabilities. For example it >> should be possible to only support UTF8=USER (non EAI IMAP >> server, but which accepts UTF-8 usernames/passwords), or >> support all other EAI functions, without supporting UTF-8 >> username/password (e.g. a legacy authentication database). >> >> I think UTF8=APPEND should be independent of other UTF8* >> capabilities. Allowing for EAI APPEND might require quite a >> bit of extra work. >> >> Both UTF8=ALL and UTF8=ONLY are related to UTF8 capability. >> We can either define them as implying UTF8, or say that if >> one of them is advertised, then UTF8 MUST also be advertised. >> Moreover, I think UTF8=ONLY implies UTF8=ALL. One can also >> argue that UTF8=ONLY implies UTF8=APPEND. I would be Ok either >> way, but one way or another this needs to be stated >> explicitly. > > The more I think about it, the more I think that having a > "UTF8" capability string as well as "UTF8=xxx" strings creates > a confusing situation, particularly when one or more of the > others implies the former. Here's what I suggest: > > Define the capability as "UTF8=x,y,z", where the bit after the > "=" (let's call them "UTF8 subcapabilities") can be some > combination of ACCEPT, APPEND, USER, ALL, and ONLY. Put this > definition into a section that goes between the current > sections 2 and 3, and say that the UTF8 subcapabilities are > defined in the sections below, and that some of them may imply > others. > > Note, too, that this does not extend the grammar for capability > strings. RFC 3501 defines "capability" to be "atom", and the > "," character is permitted in an atom. it may require a small > tweak to the registry, though. > > Now, section 3 (now section 4) will start with this: > > 4. "ACCEPT" UTF8 Subcapability > > The "ACCEPT" UTF8 subcapability indicates the server > supports UTF-8 quoted strings, the "UTF8" parameter to > SELECT and EXAMINE, and UTF-8 responses from the LIST and > LSUB commands. > > The old section 3.1 gets this change: > > string sent by the client. When the IMAP server advertises > the "ACCEPT" UTF8 subcapability, it informs the client that > it supports native UTF-8 quoted-strings with the following > syntax: > > ...and so on, for the other instances of "UTF8 capability". > References to "the UTF8=ALL capability" would similarly change > to 'the "ALL" UTF8 subcapability', and so on. > > And we add this: > > The "ACCEPT" UTF8 subcapability may be specified on its > own, or with any combination of other subcapabilities. It > is implied by the "ALL" and "ONLY" subcapabilities, and MAY > be omitted in the presence of one of those. > > > In '5. "APPEND" UTF8 Subcapability', we add this: > > The "APPEND" UTF8 subcapability may be specified on its > own, or with any combination of other subcapabilities. It > is implied by the "ONLY" subcapability, and MAY be omitted > in the presence of "ONLY". > > In '6. "USER" UTF8 Subcapability', we add this: > > The "USER" UTF8 subcapability may be specified on its own, > or with any combination of other subcapabilities. It is > not implied by any of the other subcapabilities. > > In '7. "ALL" UTF8 Subcapability', we add this: > > The "ALL" UTF8 subcapability may be specified on its own, or > with any combination of other subcapabilities. It is > implied by the "ONLY" subcapability, and MAY be omitted in > the presence of "ONLY". > > The "ALL" UTF8 subcapability implies the "ACCEPT" > subcapability, and "ACCEPT" MAY be omitted in the presence > of "ALL". > > In '8. "ONLY" UTF8 Subcapability', we add this: > > The "ONLY" UTF8 subcapability may be specified on its own, > or with any combination of other subcapabilities. It > implies the "ACCEPT", "APPEND", and "ALL" subcapabilities, > and those MAY be omitted in the presence of "ONLY". > > We might add examples, such as these: > UTF8=ACCEPT,USER,APPEND > UTF8=ACCEPT,ALL > UTF8=ALL ; Note, same as above > UTF8=ACCEPT,USER,APPEND,ALL,ONLY > UTF8=USER,ONLY ; Note, same as above > > --- > > I think this makes everything clear and easy to parse. > > Comments? > > Barry > _______________________________________________ > IMA mailing list > IMA@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima
- [EAI] Comments on draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-07 SM
- Re: [EAI] Comments on draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-07 Barry Leiba
- Re: [EAI] Comments on draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-07 Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [EAI] Comments on draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-07 Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [EAI] Comments on draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-07 Pete Resnick
- Re: [EAI] Comments on draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-07 Pete Resnick
- Re: [EAI] Comments on draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-07 Barry Leiba
- Re: [EAI] Comments on draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-07 Joseph Yee
- Re: [EAI] Comments on draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-07 Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [EAI] Comments on draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-07 Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [EAI] Comments on draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-07 Joseph Yee
- Re: [EAI] Comments on draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-07 Joseph Yee
- Re: [EAI] Comments on draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-07 Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [EAI] Comments on draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-07 Barry Leiba
- Re: [EAI] Comments on draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-07 John C Klensin
- Re: [EAI] Comments on draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-07 Alexey Melnikov
- [EAI] [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: Comments on draft-ietf-… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [EAI] Comments on draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-07 Joseph Yee
- Re: [EAI] Comments on draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-07 Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [EAI] Comments on draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-07 Barry Leiba
- Re: [EAI] Comments on draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-07 Pete Resnick
- Re: [EAI] Comments on draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-07 Joseph Yee
- Re: [EAI] Comments on draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-07 Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [EAI] Comments on draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-07 Harald Alvestrand