Re: Last Call: draft-ietf-imapext-sort (INTERNET MESSAGE ACCESS PROTOCOL - SORT AND THREAD EXTENSIONS) to Proposed Standard

Mark Crispin <MRC@Washington.EDU> Tue, 04 March 2008 19:01 UTC

Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m24J14mI002134 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 4 Mar 2008 12:01:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org)
Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m24J14NB002133; Tue, 4 Mar 2008 12:01:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org using -f
Received: from mxout2.cac.washington.edu (mxout2.cac.washington.edu [140.142.33.4]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m24J12cP002126 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for <ietf-imapext@imc.org>; Tue, 4 Mar 2008 12:01:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MRC@Washington.EDU)
Received: from smtp.washington.edu (smtp.washington.edu [140.142.32.139]) by mxout2.cac.washington.edu (8.13.7+UW06.06/8.13.7+UW07.09) with ESMTP id m24J10w9029931 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 4 Mar 2008 11:01:01 -0800
X-Auth-Received: from Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washignton.EDU (tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu [128.95.135.58]) (authenticated authid=mrc) by smtp.washington.edu (8.13.7+UW06.06/8.13.7+UW07.09) with ESMTP id m24J10HP014411 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 4 Mar 2008 11:01:00 -0800
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 11:00:25 -0800
From: Mark Crispin <MRC@Washington.EDU>
To: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@nic.fr>
cc: IMAP Extensions WG <ietf-imapext@imc.org>, ietf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Last Call: draft-ietf-imapext-sort (INTERNET MESSAGE ACCESS PROTOCOL - SORT AND THREAD EXTENSIONS) to Proposed Standard
In-Reply-To: <20080304103216.GA4077@nic.fr>
Message-ID: <alpine.WNT.1.00.0803041053020.4116@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washignton.EDU>
References: <1366777170.29281204132370162.JavaMail.root@dogfood.zimbra.com> <alpine.OSX.1.00.0802270935460.11461@pangtzu.panda.com> <20080304103216.GA4077@nic.fr>
User-Agent: Alpine 1.00 (WNT 941 2008-03-03)
Organization: UW Technology
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset="US-ASCII"; format="flowed"
X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704, Antispam-Engine: 2.6.0.325393, Antispam-Data: 2008.3.4.104837
X-Uwash-Spam: Gauge=IIIIIII, Probability=7%, Report='BODY_SIZE_700_799 0, __CP_URI_IN_BODY 0, __CT 0, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN 0, __HAS_MSGID 0, __MIME_TEXT_ONLY 0, __MIME_VERSION 0, __SANE_MSGID 0, __USER_AGENT 0'
Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org
Precedence: bulk
List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-imapext/mail-archive/>
List-ID: <ietf-imapext.imc.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-imapext-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe>

On Tue, 4 Mar 2008, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:
>> The actual correct collation, assuming(!) surname-first collation and
>> Latin character ordering(!!), is:
>> due to where the surname is located in various cultures.
> Is it a good idea to sort on the ordering of the sender's culture? If
> the ordering is to be useful for the human user, it should be
> according the receiver's culture, no?

My answer to this question is "yes to all of the above".

That is, a truly correct collation uses knowledge of both the sender's 
culture *AND* the receiver's culture; and the ways that these interact are 
not necessarily obvious.

-- Mark --

http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.