Re: [ippm] New Version Notification for draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-01.txt

["MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" <[e-mail]>]

Hi Guiseppe,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ippm [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Fioccola Giuseppe
> Sent: Monday, October 30, 2017 7:29 AM
> To: [e-mail]; [e-mail]
> Cc: '[e-mail]'
> Subject: [ippm] I: New Version Notification for draft-fioccola-ippm-
> multipoint-alt-mark-01.txt
> 
> Hi IPPM,
> 
> We have updated the draft to address the comment received in Prague from
> Al Morton about considering RFC5644 relevant for this work.
> 
> The feeling is that the multipoint alternate marking considerations
> extend the scope of RFC5644 to Passive/Hybrid Performance Measurements
> and also to multi source stream. A new section "Correlation with
> RFC5644" has been added. Some terminologies and definitions can be re-
> used from RFC5644 (e.g. spatial, segment, multiparty, one-to-group
> metrics and also group-to-group topologies), but they have to be
> rephrased to be applied to the alternate marking schema.

[ACM] 
Thanks for addressing my comment. It is certainly worthwhile
to re-use what you can. It will be useful to recognize the 
overlap between one-to-group and group-to-group metrics, and
that some group-to-group metrics consolidate many one-to-group
observations, and those are built on one-to-one observations...

In section 3, you indicate the possibility of multi-paths
appearing in the measurements, and then
you raise an important point about specifying
single IP addresses, that: 
 " ... a single source address selects flows following a point-to-
   multipoint, while a multipoint-to-point can be the result of a
   matching on a single destination address."

If specifying a single Source address, for example, the 
point-to-multipoint graph would almost certainly include
multiple paths as well. The risk of combining measurements
on the basis of Source IP-only, is that delay variations
observed across multiple paths would be larger than those 
experienced by single flows. Common Flow classification keeps 
each flow on *one* route through the multi-path topology.

"...alternate marking method is applicable only to a single path",
so it appears you start with the flow-specific information,
just be careful with the aggregations in the multipoint cases.

Measurements of Route variation/sensitivities are on (some of) our minds:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-amf-ippm-route-01
and this is a possible area of interaction where we all benefit:
from your Section 4.1:
   "The Monitoring Network is deduced from the Production Network, by
   identifying the nodes of the graph, that are the measurement points,
   and the links, that are the connections between measurement points."
Even if your org. owns the production network, you may still be 
surprised how packets flow through it when routing choices are made
on IP and higher-layer info.

  "4.4.2.  Mean Delay and Jitter

   Mean delay and jitter measurements can also be generalized to the
   case of multipoint flows."
This is where my comments above on combining measurements across
flows are relevant. Also, we prefer "Packet Delay Variation" over the 
term "Jitter" in IPPM, and RFC 3393 explains why.

hope this helps,
Al


> 
> 
> 
> Also, the description of how to use RFC5474 and RFC5475 coupled with
> alternate marking has been detailed (section "Hashing selection
> method"). It can be applied to both point-to-point (described in draft-
> mizrahi-ippm-compact-alternate-marking) and to multipoint-to-multipoint
> (described in this new version).
> 
> 
> 
> In addition, new considerations inspired from Last Call discussion on
> the foundation draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark have been included also in this
> new version.
> 
> 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> 
> 
> Giuseppe
> 
> 
> 
> -----Messaggio originale-----
> 
> Da: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]]
> 
> Inviato: lunedì 30 ottobre 2017 11:31
> 
> A: Riccardo Sisto; Fioccola Giuseppe; Cociglio Mauro; Amedeo Sapio
> 
> Oggetto: New Version Notification for draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-
> alt-mark-01.txt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A new version of I-D, draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-01.txt
> 
> has been successfully submitted by Giuseppe Fioccola and posted to the
> IETF repository.
> 
> 
> 
> Name:		draft-fioccola-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark
> 
> Revision:	01
> 
> Title:		Multipoint Alternate Marking method for passive and
> hybrid performance monitoring
> 
> Document date:	2017-10-30
> 
> Group:		Individual Submission
> 
> Pages:		15
> 
> URL:            https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
> 3A__www.ietf.org_internet-2Ddrafts_draft-2Dfioccola-2Dippm-2Dmultipoint-
> 2Dalt-2Dmark-2D01.txt&d=DwIGaQ&c=LFYZ-
> o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=OfsSu8kTIltVyD1oL72cBw&m=suU4T_2RZzOwGp0SQv4djBq7_f7
> o0xSry1botNlPQwo&s=tyA_g2awBepo0xLRkexAz6QGn95n8OsVRPX2uXtim_8&e=
> 
> Status:         https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
> 3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_draft-2Dfioccola-2Dippm-2Dmultipoint-2Dalt-
> 2Dmark_&d=DwIGaQ&c=LFYZ-
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> Htmlized:       https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
> 3A__tools.ietf.org_html_draft-2Dfioccola-2Dippm-2Dmultipoint-2Dalt-
> 2Dmark-2D01&d=DwIGaQ&c=LFYZ-
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> Htmlized:       https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
> 3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_html_draft-2Dfioccola-2Dippm-2Dmultipoint-
> 2Dalt-2Dmark-2D01&d=DwIGaQ&c=LFYZ-
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> 
> Diff:           https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
> 3A__www.ietf.org_rfcdiff-3Furl2-3Ddraft-2Dfioccola-2Dippm-2Dmultipoint-
> 2Dalt-2Dmark-2D01&d=DwIGaQ&c=LFYZ-
> o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=OfsSu8kTIltVyD1oL72cBw&m=suU4T_2RZzOwGp0SQv4djBq7_f7
> o0xSry1botNlPQwo&s=AOC587l3llHlTLOLAMr_worZBB9pM2xdHSicpvIBafc&e=
> 
> 
> 
> Abstract:
> 
>    The Alternate Marking method, as presented in
> 
>    [I-D.ietf-ippm-alt-mark], can be applied only to point-to-point flows
> 
>    because it assumes that all the packets of the flow measured on one
> 
>    node are measured again by a single second node.  This document aims
> 
>    to generalize and expand this methodology to measure any kind of
> 
>    unicast flows, whose packets can follow several different paths in
> 
>    the network, in wider terms a multipoint-to-multipoint network.  For
> 
>    this reason the technique here described is called Multipoint
> 
>    Alternate Marking.  Some definitions here introduced extend the scope
> 
>    of RFC 5644 [RFC5644] in the context of alternate marking schema.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> The IETF Secretariat
> 
> 
> 
> 
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