IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: Normatively referenced specifications

"Dale Mohlenhoff (dmohlenh)" <dmohlenh@cisco.com> Wed, 18 December 2013 18:46 UTC

Return-Path: <dmohlenh@cisco.com>
X-Original-To: ipr-wg@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ipr-wg@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B48581AE07E for <ipr-wg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 18 Dec 2013 10:46:37 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -10.039
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.039 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.538, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OvBxqa-P00aR for <ipr-wg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 18 Dec 2013 10:46:35 -0800 (PST)
Received: from alln-iport-4.cisco.com (alln-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.142.91]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8A881AE001 for <ipr-wg@ietf.org>; Wed, 18 Dec 2013 10:46:35 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2852; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1387392394; x=1388601994; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-id:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=+N1QH4V70p/oqYIbG7ouRdnEtkoWvq50OJsw9hWaP4Y=; b=VBY7+XmpqSRKDBpyTZAwuz0oo7irQSoDYmJsZth+DvzEgbwXooFTHgeu 81cBZb6fB1Y0bZHkFZxbDv6ykGJbxHY3LuU5WZdPbPhQ+CYEPOC5ikRPv 2KbSSmGdUw/dFkzsTp70PvkoxbR149jR6B2cTFF1NJuB7umKeqbXoD0Tc k=;
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AhgFAEjssVKtJXG9/2dsb2JhbABWA4JpIThVuHOBGxZ0giUBAQEEAQEBNzQXBAIBCBEEAQEBHgkHJwsUCQgCBAESiAQBDMoyEwSPAhcGC4QlBJgWkhSDK4Iq
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.95,508,1384300800"; d="scan'208";a="7699509"
Received: from rcdn-core2-2.cisco.com ([173.37.113.189]) by alln-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Dec 2013 18:46:34 +0000
Received: from xhc-rcd-x04.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x04.cisco.com [173.37.183.78]) by rcdn-core2-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id rBIIkY4R018392 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 18 Dec 2013 18:46:34 GMT
Received: from xmb-aln-x01.cisco.com ([fe80::747b:83e1:9755:d453]) by xhc-rcd-x04.cisco.com ([fe80::200:5efe:173.37.183.34%12]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Wed, 18 Dec 2013 12:46:34 -0600
From: "Dale Mohlenhoff (dmohlenh)" <dmohlenh@cisco.com>
To: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>, Michael Cameron <michael.cameron@ericsson.com>, "dcrocker@bbiw.net" <dcrocker@bbiw.net>, "ipr-wg@ietf.org" <ipr-wg@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Normatively referenced specifications
Thread-Topic: Normatively referenced specifications
Thread-Index: AQHO+wYxlYjlcMiEV0WCDjCwJ+GX4JpZci0AgAAxHiCAAGKzgIAAh0SAgAARwQCAAAg8AIAAA9sAgAABpgCAAAIjgP//fH+A
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 18:46:33 +0000
Message-ID: <CED72CDA.11A3B%dmohlenh@cisco.com>
References: <CED46C85.AC4EC%stewe@stewe.org> <6.2.5.6.2.20131217001052.0c5bff98@resistor.net> <8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE712026ECD3A9B@MX15A.corp.emc.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20131218001051.0c266ed0@resistor.net> <CED70C71.119D0%dmohlenh@cisco.com> <52B1CF27.3010905@joelhalpern.com> <52B1DE0C.8010201@dcrocker.net> <36BAA6A693139D4BBCB37CCCA660E08A02B87FCC@eusaamb101.ericsson.se> <52B1E830.30001@dcrocker.net> <36BAA6A693139D4BBCB37CCCA660E08A02B88190@eusaamb101.ericsson.se> <993E6E5E6EA5F13E50293C74@JcK-HP8200.jck.com>
In-Reply-To: <993E6E5E6EA5F13E50293C74@JcK-HP8200.jck.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.9.131030
x-originating-ip: [10.21.71.98]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-ID: <910E1BC3EE3E104687E335DDD3E397DA@emea.cisco.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-BeenThere: ipr-wg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: IPR-WG <ipr-wg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ipr-wg>, <mailto:ipr-wg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ipr-wg/>
List-Post: <mailto:ipr-wg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ipr-wg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipr-wg>, <mailto:ipr-wg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 18:46:37 -0000

I agree John.  However, this is an area that has caused some issues to
arise already and I think will continue to do so.  This is not just an
IETF issue, however, would it make sense to consider language to address
this issue or just state that a declarant must put these constraints in
their declaration.  I am thinking out loud here, but I understand your
point that the current IETF IPR Policy does not address this.
    
 
Dale G. Mohlenhoff 
Cisco Systems, Inc.
Senior Corporate Counsel                                           170
West Tasman Drive
                   
                   San Jose, CA  95134-1706
dmohlenh@cisco.com
Direct:     +1.408.525.9589
Mobile:   +1.509.991.6003
 
This e-mail may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole
use of the intended recipient.  Any review, use, distribution or
disclosure by others is strictly prohibited.  If you are not the intended
recipient (or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the
sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of this message.






On 12/18/13 10:37 AM, "John C Klensin" <john-ietf@jck.com> wrote:

>
>
>--On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 18:29 +0000 Michael Cameron
><michael.cameron@ericsson.com> wrote:
>
>> We are discussing 2 different things--one thread of this
>> conversation is what disclosure is required (your e-mail
>> below), the other thread is what IPR Policy applies to a
>> submission having a normative reference (my referenced
>> e-mail). 
>
>Much as some people persist in assuming otherwise, the IETF
>doesn't have an IPR policy that would touch on what
>non-copyright grants or rights to implement or use something are
>required.  There is only a disclosure policy.  So Dave --and I
>and others-- are talking about the disclosure policy.  As far as
>what licensing terms are required in referenced documents, there
>is no such requirement, not because the documents are
>incorporated by reference but because there or no requirements
>on the primary/ referencing document either.  Just a requirement
>about disclosure by any who can reasonably be expected to know
>about the IPR.
>
>   john
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Dave Crocker [mailto:dhc@dcrocker.net]
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 10:24 AM
>> To: Michael Cameron; ipr-wg@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: Normatively referenced specifications
>> 
>> On 12/18/2013 10:09 AM, Michael Cameron wrote:
>>> But Dave may be right when the IPR is owned by one entity
>> 
>> 
>> This is the sort of attempt at nuance that is impractical and,
>> by my reading, does not apply to the IETF's disclosure
>> requirement:
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Ipr-wg mailing list
>Ipr-wg@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipr-wg

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email