RE: Normatively referenced specifications

Michael Cameron <michael.cameron@ericsson.com> Wed, 18 December 2013 17:56 UTC

Return-Path: <michael.cameron@ericsson.com>
X-Original-To: ipr-wg@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ipr-wg@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A59F11AE006 for <ipr-wg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 18 Dec 2013 09:56:05 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.901
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9nbrU0s1IXjm for <ipr-wg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 18 Dec 2013 09:56:04 -0800 (PST)
Received: from usevmg20.ericsson.net (usevmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D13D1AC448 for <ipr-wg@ietf.org>; Wed, 18 Dec 2013 09:56:04 -0800 (PST)
X-AuditID: c618062d-b7f278e000005a8f-05-52b1e1b0d8f1
Received: from EUSAAHC007.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.93]) by usevmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id FF.7E.23183.0B1E1B25; Wed, 18 Dec 2013 18:56:00 +0100 (CET)
Received: from EUSAAMB101.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.118]) by EUSAAHC007.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.93]) with mapi id 14.02.0347.000; Wed, 18 Dec 2013 12:55:47 -0500
From: Michael Cameron <michael.cameron@ericsson.com>
To: "ipr-wg@ietf.org" <ipr-wg@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Normatively referenced specifications
Thread-Topic: Normatively referenced specifications
Thread-Index: AQHO+wYsgxWEy05JX02ltlZg0bWAbQHcQ2xWAkTATtUCP5AaoQHXoqvbAbcPQekDM7DNz5mws1qQgEBtKvA=
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 17:55:46 +0000
Message-ID: <36BAA6A693139D4BBCB37CCCA660E08A02B87F0A@eusaamb101.ericsson.se>
References: <CED46C85.AC4EC%stewe@stewe.org> <6.2.5.6.2.20131217001052.0c5bff98@resistor.net> <8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE712026ECD3A9B@MX15A.corp.emc.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20131218001051.0c266ed0@resistor.net> <CED70C71.119D0%dmohlenh@cisco.com> <52B1CF27.3010905@joelhalpern.com> <CED70F91.119E3%dmohlenh@cisco.com> <077901cefc13$0da023e0$28e06ba0$@rosenlaw.com>
In-Reply-To: <077901cefc13$0da023e0$28e06ba0$@rosenlaw.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.135]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrOLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPrO6GhxuDDL6+kLd4++ELswOjx5Il P5kCGKO4bFJSczLLUov07RK4Mj5v28JeMI2rYtmn9awNjBM5uhg5OSQETCT27T/AAmGLSVy4 t56ti5GLQ0jgCKPE8e6P7BDOckaJFRveAVVxcLABdTx/BtYgIqAu0XDsJytIWFjASGLyJlOI sLHEv+aD7BB2ksTi7iWMIDaLgKrEijMvwWxeAV+Jy50vWSHGf2GSuHh3CStIglPAWuJm5zlm EJsR6KDvp9YwgdjMAuISt57MZ4I4VEBiyZ7zzBC2qMTLx/9YIWxlie9zHrFA1OtILNj9iQ3C 1pZYtvA1M8RiQYmTM5+wTGAUnYVk7CwkLbOQtMxC0rKAkWUVI0dpcWpZbrqRwSZGYOAfk2DT 3cG456XlIUZpDhYlcd4vb52DhATSE0tSs1NTC1KL4otKc1KLDzEycXBKNTC2/L+3USrAzObi g2qxElWNcqePPydevMF+YNXik9Ei63WeCedtSeyO2Nj536Lx7U+tx3Z1R8yFrnjJf7bdue3v tZSFcwWu7ZsT8U3jUuMfsZ9bNGaJh8v1C95d9sHC/4rR/Rmzbl5cEeihm/aaX/hzu1T5lGt/ ei00r99YwCIqO0e9cqP98sg7SizFGYmGWsxFxYkASQRHP0oCAAA=
X-BeenThere: ipr-wg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: IPR-WG <ipr-wg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ipr-wg>, <mailto:ipr-wg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ipr-wg/>
List-Post: <mailto:ipr-wg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ipr-wg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipr-wg>, <mailto:ipr-wg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 17:56:05 -0000

Larry wrote:

>>Where in the IETF rules does it say that conformity to the spec is a legal requirement in order to implement it?

Conformity to the spec is a technical requirement for interoperability. One can try to implement similar functionality outside of the Specification (and may be successful), but they may have difficulty marketing the box to a carrier who wants your assurance that it is protocol compliant (when tecnically, it is not).

>>How do you reconcile that with the open source rule that says that any FOSS software can be modified without asking additional permissions? 

Company A is the inventor a high level protocol X adopted as an IETF RFC and declared by A under RAND.

Company B develops source code that implements X and makes it avaliable under one of the permissive copyleft licenses.

Company C is free to do as they wish with respect to B's source code (subject to the copyleft license--e.g., modify it, distribute it, etc.,) but B and C are still obligated to respect A's IPR rights.     

Ultimately, one must map A's patent claims to the Specification to determine the scope of Company A's rights.  How anyone implements protocol X (using FOSS, proprietary code, etc., is irrelevant to determing A's rights).