RE: Normatively referenced specifications

[Michael Cameron <[e-mail]>]

Agreed--the IETF, IEEE, ITU etc., IPR policies do not mandate that if an invention is to be adopted as a standard, it must be made available on a FRAND, RAND, defensive suspension, royalty free, etc. basis. 

We operate in a patent thicket in which there may be a number of patents owned by engineers, garage inventors, small companies, universities, etc., that are necessarily infringed by a certain standard, but whose inventors are oblivious to the standards setting process. It would not make sense for a standards organization to punish the members who are doing the heavy lifting in the standards org by making them give up their rights (or holding them  to a certain standard), while those who are not involved are free to assert their patent rights however they wish. 

-----Original Message-----
From: John C Klensin [mailto:[e-mail]] 
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 10:37 AM
To: Michael Cameron; [e-mail]; [e-mail]
Subject: RE: Normatively referenced specifications



--On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 18:29 +0000 Michael Cameron <[e-mail]> wrote:

> We are discussing 2 different things--one thread of this conversation 
> is what disclosure is required (your e-mail below), the other thread 
> is what IPR Policy applies to a submission having a normative 
> reference (my referenced e-mail).

Much as some people persist in assuming otherwise, the IETF doesn't have an IPR policy that would touch on what non-copyright grants or rights to implement or use something are required.  There is only a disclosure policy.  So Dave --and I and others-- are talking about the disclosure policy.  As far as what licensing terms are required in referenced documents, there is no such requirement, not because the documents are incorporated by reference but because there or no requirements on the primary/ referencing document either.  Just a requirement about disclosure by any who can reasonably be expected to know about the IPR.

   john

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Crocker [mailto:[e-mail]]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 10:24 AM
> To: Michael Cameron; [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: Normatively referenced specifications
> 
> On 12/18/2013 10:09 AM, Michael Cameron wrote:
>> But Dave may be right when the IPR is owned by one entity
> 
> 
> This is the sort of attempt at nuance that is impractical and, by my 
> reading, does not apply to the IETF's disclosure
> requirement: