Re: appropriate length of fe80:: prefix - new version of draft-petrescu-6man-ll-prefix-len
Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Fri, 15 February 2019 15:28 UTC
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Subject: Re: appropriate length of fe80:: prefix - new version of draft-petrescu-6man-ll-prefix-len
To: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>, Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>, Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com>
Cc: IPv6 IPv6 List <ipv6@ietf.org>, 神明達哉 <jinmei@wide.ad.jp>
References: <6d9657d0-803c-fcb2-ddb9-13f707bdfd47@gmail.com> <CAKQ4NaXGmuuqE=W=fepZDEn8NVJGwtQtdRxxC7j6PePNzy5WGA@mail.gmail.com> <5f27ed42c17a463898c43e94422499a2@ustx2ex-dag1mb5.msg.corp.akamai.com> <CAKQ4NaXS0JjbainT+7AiEb3FudqNiVKc_YXQ1y0JrLSSnzFAPw@mail.gmail.com> <27f3c3266f2e4a7f9ed773e986d41275@ustx2ex-dag1mb5.msg.corp.akamai.com> <38ef7dced8e34455b1059ce3ca8afeb1@ustx2ex-dag1mb5.msg.corp.akamai.com> <0af59661-ed8b-cd25-1125-468604edee53@gmail.com> <1df7d774-fe97-2feb-444a-94992cb89581@gmail.com> <CAJE_bqfVkFkvxVto67VGhjDK61ob6wxZXCRObtmwpr3GSyenfw@mail.gmail.com> <2def076d-b6bf-d84f-152b-d1d9277e9e73@gmail.com> <CAKQ4NaUW5-VY=TMjh0Ap01KTg4=An8=EXH_ej40nW=GM1kUL4w@mail.gmail.com> <c54b9702-1c6f-e5ae-971d-7d3ef443d994@gmail.com> <CAO42Z2wPAF6YCwsb+f0BXMEOKdFSiiFRNop=ChvKFPW32UepBA@mail.gmail.com> <e2a1a5c4-832f-744e-db69-2100c32fb59e@gmail.com> <9bfa3899-bab8-f606-06f2-4e42a629b9fa@si6networks.com> <efe24981-5a3b-5cfd-49eb-12546f0e9c5f@gmail.com>
From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>
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Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2019 16:28:27 +0100
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Hi, I submitted a new version of draft-petrescu-6man-ll-prefix-len. The changes are: - explanation of why fe80:1::1 does not work in a particular OS, - refer to the new DHCPv6 RFC which considers fe80::/10. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-petrescu-6man-ll-prefix-len/ Alex Le 31/01/2019 à 23:35, Brian E Carpenter a écrit : > Hi Fernando, > On 2019-02-01 00:15, Fernando Gont wrote: >> On 30/1/19 19:14, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >>> Section 5.3 "Creation of Link-Local Addresses" of RFC4862 refers to >>> an interface identifier of N bits and an fe80::0 prefix "of >>> appropriate length", which according to the addressing architecture >>> is 128-N. But N is undefined by RFC4862 and cannot be derived from an >>> RA because all this happens as soon as the interface is enabled. >>> Therefore N must be predefined. >> >> I guess that since link-local addresses are generated with SLAAC, at >> least according to current specs that implies a prefix length of /64? > > All the current specs (including the ones Alexandre mentioned) specify > 64 bit IIDs for LL assignment. But as I pointed out, it isn't necessary > that the same IID is used for LL creation and for a routeable address > created later after receiving an RA/PIO. I can't see anything in nature > or RFC4862 that requires the lengths to be the same either. > > I have no problem with every ipv6-over-foo specifying 64 for the LL IID, > or with implementations using the same IID for both LL and SLAAC, but > these are choices, not rules. > > There's probably a privacy argument for *not* using the same IID for > LL and routeable addresses. > >>> As pioneered by RFC2464**, all ipv6-over-foo documents must therefore >>> specify N for their link type. So far, everybody has specified 64, as >>> far as I know. Is there a reason to do otherwise for the two drafts >>> mentioned below? >> >> I'd regard that as an artifact of history ;-) , which made sense at a >> time when we generated IIDs embedding MAC addresses in the IID. >> Nowadays, I don't think there's a valid technical reason for a link >> layer to specify the IID length. Why would they care? In fact, some >> might even regard that as a layering violation... > > You're 100% correct about the historical reason for this. It's quite > amusing to see the magical 0xfffe appearing in draft-hou-6lo-plc > for no obvious reason. But I think that an ipv6-over-foo MUST specify > the IID length for LL addresses, because it's explicitly a free parameter > N in RFC4862. Of course these days the IID bits should be specified > as "see [RFC8064], [RFC7217]". > >>> Why does it matter, since the unrouteable fe80::/(128-N) prefix is >>> quite disjoint from the question of the routeable /64 prefix? All we >>> care about is that it matches fe80::/10. >>> >>> (As a matter of curiousity, is there any particular reason to use the >>> same IID to generate the LL address and the stable routeable address? >>> It surely isn't necessary, otherwise temporary addresses wouldn't >>> work.) >> >> Where I've found this "expectation", it has been associated with some >> sort of "compression" -- some way to avoid storing or transmitting part >> of the IP address because you can derive/imply it form elsewhere. > > Which sounds like bad computer science. And again, temporary addresses > seem to show that it is a wrong assumption. > > Brian >
- SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: pref… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … 神明達哉
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … 神明達哉
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Ole Troan
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Ole Troan
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Philip Homburg
- Re: RFC7217 'opaque and stable IIDs' Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Ole Troan
- Re: RFC7217 'opaque and stable IIDs' Ole Troan
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Philip Homburg
- Re: RFC7217 'opaque and stable IIDs' Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Ole Troan
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Philip Homburg
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Ole Troan
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: RFC7217 'opaque and stable IIDs' 神明達哉
- Re:interop - SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length o… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: interop - SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length … Ole Troan
- Re: interop - SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … 神明達哉
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Fred Baker
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Musa Stephen Honlue
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Dennis Ferguson
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Sander Steffann
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Ole Troan
- RE: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Lubashev, Igor
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Mark Smith
- RE: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Lubashev, Igor
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Yucel Guven
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Yucel Guven
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Fred Baker
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Ole Troan
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Ole Troan
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Yucel Guven
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Yucel Guven
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Sander Steffann
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Sander Steffann
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Sander Steffann
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Yucel Guven
- RE: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Lubashev, Igor
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Yucel Guven
- RE: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Lubashev, Igor
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Yucel Guven
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Alexandre Petrescu
- RE: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Lubashev, Igor
- RE: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Lubashev, Igor
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Yucel Guven
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Yucel Guven
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … 神明達哉
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Matthew Petach
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Mark Smith
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Ole Troan
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Simon Hobson
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Mark Smith
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Mark Smith
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Simon Hobson
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Fred Baker
- RE: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Lubashev, Igor
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Mark Smith
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Mark Smith
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Mark Smith
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Yucel Guven
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … 神明達哉
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: SLAAC RFC4862 - appropriate length of fe80:: … Alexandre Petrescu
- appropriate length of fe80:: prefix and new IP-ov… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: appropriate length of fe80:: prefix and new I… Mark Smith
- Re: appropriate length of fe80:: prefix and new I… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: appropriate length of fe80:: prefix and new I… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: appropriate length of fe80:: prefix and new I… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: appropriate length of fe80:: prefix and new I… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: appropriate length of fe80:: prefix and new I… Fernando Gont
- Re: appropriate length of fe80:: prefix and new I… Fernando Gont
- Re: appropriate length of fe80:: prefix and new I… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: appropriate length of fe80:: prefix and new I… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: appropriate length of fe80:: prefix and new I… Fernando Gont
- Re: appropriate length of fe80:: prefix and new I… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: appropriate length of fe80:: prefix and new I… Fernando Gont
- Re: appropriate length of fe80:: prefix and new I… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: appropriate length of fe80:: prefix and new I… 神明達哉
- Re: appropriate length of fe80:: prefix and new I… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: appropriate length of fe80:: prefix and new I… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: appropriate length of fe80:: prefix - new ver… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: appropriate length of fe80:: prefix and new I… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: appropriate length of fe80:: prefix and new I… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: appropriate length of fe80:: prefix and new I… Gyan Mishra
- Re: appropriate length of fe80:: prefix and new I… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: appropriate length of fe80:: prefix and new I… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: appropriate length of fe80:: prefix and new I… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: appropriate length of fe80:: prefix and new I… Gyan Mishra
- Re: appropriate length of fe80:: prefix and new I… Alexandre Petrescu