Re: appropriate length of fe80:: prefix and new IP-over-foo drafts

神明達哉 <jinmei@wide.ad.jp> Thu, 31 January 2019 17:43 UTC

Return-Path: <jinmei.tatuya@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37ABD12D4F2 for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 09:43:21 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -0.919
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FROM_EXCESS_BASE64=0.979, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DJrNz0E2OMsm for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 09:43:20 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-wr1-f54.google.com (mail-wr1-f54.google.com [209.85.221.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D4F601277D2 for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 09:43:19 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-wr1-f54.google.com with SMTP id z5so4239743wrt.11 for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 09:43:19 -0800 (PST)
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=jgQortfIh/ArfoXiZr+K6nBm6Pk6QU6RIOxfz7Lk0Ws=; b=qxAoLHuQSAO1l5qxAWwbt3MIrbp5Wmpw2jT0OYd2b8OW7GNwZHdx8X9lJvVex7poWd 5ZiiO9O6JLTwkp/Af5ZA8IaEsxHI/Gj+ygCk256jazBTox3DoP1GzklVRmOwEN4tZL8i dacZMK7Ja0ngRKoC1iTHzw+t+FOhxC2HDkETRJ3UXqoRW7epP7JpyMK2Qm6DJ+uzDNg6 ydcmq/JV2vJfhdn9/PPNay+DVanGvnd+wRBUqWdRxHg9hM0yijaYgyVcVc7foqpmzcyR Q6abtnQtx2G/6ZeEVF+B78+qdv/y58RpY76Fy0D3GouAFs8JAIjhcc7Iq1nT8cvk4Ez7 TG6A==
X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukc9Fs3tKu65cHN9wI+iScVeY6iAL6Vio6GMxKmwUpSwrYIknvxD GdomHlMz3eZN0V4h3bJHxe8QaNH7US9775hn+4g=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN5UIMphLnTMcyledZN/W9PacWEV7+yxqRBaTdhi+SDTiCGzrKg1oQCTGraXnWR0E08PX+yCyO9jcZ3TUQigvxg=
X-Received: by 2002:a5d:6a42:: with SMTP id t2mr38015074wrw.50.1548956598040; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 09:43:18 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <6d9657d0-803c-fcb2-ddb9-13f707bdfd47@gmail.com> <27f3c3266f2e4a7f9ed773e986d41275@ustx2ex-dag1mb5.msg.corp.akamai.com> <38ef7dced8e34455b1059ce3ca8afeb1@ustx2ex-dag1mb5.msg.corp.akamai.com> <0af59661-ed8b-cd25-1125-468604edee53@gmail.com> <1df7d774-fe97-2feb-444a-94992cb89581@gmail.com> <CAJE_bqfVkFkvxVto67VGhjDK61ob6wxZXCRObtmwpr3GSyenfw@mail.gmail.com> <2def076d-b6bf-d84f-152b-d1d9277e9e73@gmail.com> <CAKQ4NaUW5-VY=TMjh0Ap01KTg4=An8=EXH_ej40nW=GM1kUL4w@mail.gmail.com> <c54b9702-1c6f-e5ae-971d-7d3ef443d994@gmail.com> <CAO42Z2wPAF6YCwsb+f0BXMEOKdFSiiFRNop=ChvKFPW32UepBA@mail.gmail.com> <e2a1a5c4-832f-744e-db69-2100c32fb59e@gmail.com> <c0d25c47-4684-8e1b-518d-2b00b41b9ed5@gmail.com> <6b712b9f-9a72-86a1-eab0-262b54962de8@si6networks.com> <62f2709f-5167-b884-d0e3-9a42d1eb4027@gmail.com> <207325ab-f42a-c775-459f-0c07ccc19116@si6networks.com> <6a91176d-5348-31c6-392f-a8ce03f161ab@gmail.com> <4472303b-6b60-b90d-6a24-ac98a8111e5c@si6networks.com> <86bd1106-1189-c2a2-eaa2-788818035c3b@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <86bd1106-1189-c2a2-eaa2-788818035c3b@gmail.com>
From: 神明達哉 <jinmei@wide.ad.jp>
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 09:43:05 -0800
Message-ID: <CAJE_bqfsO67Cju3nDfcXdS4L6OcOFWOCWJh4mDKPA1X6WDdiAw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: appropriate length of fe80:: prefix and new IP-over-foo drafts
To: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>
Cc: Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>, Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com>, IPv6 IPv6 List <ipv6@ietf.org>, phessler@openbsd.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000cc866d0580c48f56"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/m7MtUTN9hJQnUv56BN_9AlqaAwY>
X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" <ipv6.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/>
List-Post: <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 17:43:21 -0000

At Thu, 31 Jan 2019 14:00:04 +0100,
Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> Ah?  according to which spec do the BSD implementers put bits in the
> >> range 16-64?
> >
> > They don't send those bits on the wire. But they do use those bits as
> > described. -- According to no spec. If the link-local prefix is assumed
> > to be /64, then you're free to use those bits *internally* as you wish.
> > That's what BSDs do. Jinmei is quite likely in a better position ot
> > comment on this.
>
> I would like to kindly ask Jinmei to make sure to keep that internal
> such that to not forbid the end user to ifconfig add fe80:1::1/63

I don't think it's up to me anymore, but just to explain the current
state of art:
- an end user of a BSD box can't use fe80:1::1 as a "link-local" address
- BSD hosts generally drop incoming packets whose source or
  destination address matches fe80::/10 and contains a non-0 value in
  bits 15-31 (like fe80:1::1)

Basically it doesn't allow an IPv6 address that matches fe80::/10
unless it conforms to following format specified in RFC4291:

2.5.6.  Link-Local IPv6 Unicast Addresses

   Link-Local addresses are for use on a single link.  Link-Local
   addresses have the following format:

   |   10     |
   |  bits    |         54 bits         |          64 bits           |
   +----------+-------------------------+----------------------------+
   |1111111010|           0             |       interface ID         |
   +----------+-------------------------+----------------------------+

The BSD implementation conforms to the RFC.  If someone wants to
violate the standard, they can freely do so, but they cannot assume
it's interoperable with other standard-compliant implementations.
That's a consequence of violating the standard.

I previously stated I was already done with this discussion, so I'll
stop here.  Anyone can freely hate this specification, but if it's not
even about an attempt of updating that specification (which is my
understanding of the previous cycle of this discussion), I don't think
it's a productive way of using my time to participate in it.

--
jinmei