IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [v6ops] DNS AAAA for free

Tim Chown <Tim.Chown@jisc.ac.uk> Wed, 13 April 2016 11:18 UTC

Return-Path: <tim.chown@jisc.ac.uk>
X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA07A12DA4A for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 13 Apr 2016 04:18:39 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.11
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.11 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (body has been altered)" header.d=jisc365.onmicrosoft.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EXlDrevhiGYI for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 13 Apr 2016 04:18:37 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from eu-smtp-delivery-189.mimecast.com (eu-smtp-delivery-189.mimecast.com [207.82.80.189]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 02D4212DA25 for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Wed, 13 Apr 2016 04:18:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from emea01-am1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-am1lrp0010.outbound.protection.outlook.com [213.199.154.10]) (Using TLS) by eu-smtp-1.mimecast.com with ESMTP id uk-mta-14-g5VLurNmR2CtKWyMbu2FoA-1; Wed, 13 Apr 2016 12:18:27 +0100
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jisc365.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-jisc-ac-uk; h=From:To:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=MT2ydvn3qnxIY2wL/uktujSiz1CAt95uyB1PVjVUbE0=; b=ZENRZHvfPBlZXaZhv0svlXN4bvm60rGgAiNUI9TD3kZy8IJwuR3voOR1dTHwAkF+aLVxUmMXmQizX618EhqSGw0Gv47+CoevyHeqh0ZgMGcyTpcoE/GeFn4/0M2P/MdgBwQMluy6RD+kzheljEh+9YtEc1OkY4hE/1enIulCLqk=
Received: from DBXPR07MB462.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.141.231.140) by DBXPR07MB462.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.141.231.140) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.466.12; Wed, 13 Apr 2016 11:18:24 +0000
Received: from DBXPR07MB462.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.231.140]) by DBXPR07MB462.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.231.140]) with mapi id 15.01.0466.018; Wed, 13 Apr 2016 11:18:24 +0000
From: Tim Chown <Tim.Chown@jisc.ac.uk>
To: Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [v6ops] DNS AAAA for free
Thread-Topic: [v6ops] DNS AAAA for free
Thread-Index: AQHRlXYxcVsCMD2MzkKuvkhxRo9AJg==
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 11:18:24 +0000
Message-ID: <90CC41CF-9F3D-44DB-8A23-AFB34321748E@jisc.ac.uk>
References: <07DA627D-867F-45AD-BF43-400CB06458CC@employees.org> <8BE0F8C3-D08E-487E-A12D-508C822337BB@steffann.nl> <CAO42Z2wcCNXtOPDNGT8pYL=adMyaj3qu4ZY=rUmGWMWCtWRgXg@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAO42Z2wcCNXtOPDNGT8pYL=adMyaj3qu4ZY=rUmGWMWCtWRgXg@mail.gmail.com>
Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.3112)
x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1
x-originating-ip: [2001:a88:d510:1101:a93e:5914:9e35:ffe3]
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 6c3af208-809d-4f63-c3ec-08d3638d546c
x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; DBXPR07MB462; 5:wCXbP+QoJx16jcoCxQIHPHy2ZWBNs0gpURYlfE/kM/JJ6mC92Nr7XlYmqpVHKavWx5lHwgtSXeXgZ7mm3caeS9r1KU+52kRFsxLNQ/MKmxW5IaMK+Helxhc5ttMQ3ZRsbMiyeKu8NBucMPFyP7x2UkkYzrru+wDZ4gyVyymSyL4rp4D5rFqIiC8Tq912NjJ1; 24:sRbY82J7C0HnXDJ9pFmSQMaS/L9lWjsltV+khG4YvuuK2M3Hov7QvDdLtvMaJYQxVe4jvE9tQvt5Sr0jLym228RcBiVoeH2DSeVlNF23NXs=; 7:NXMN3f0t/ZOp7DqXpZ0hddnOHCfuqVd9CpdFwLSsywdSZWJVlswSaSAzUMghjgP1irIoNdF49NQ72FatxHCUzZT01n1HamTYh0mTQQWgfjWYOMiJTvG7bfr12RYA0unK/L6xB/EmM7JjIiNENwBInr6Jt6fxj++mmuVeHKIwzoFZUJ8v6Pxz+f5zbLsUSk/vRtHV3/7+FWA3OcD8GYXVfyar159Z4EA9k29ICptMzsU=; 20:Se+VsswdyLr2qGMEffw/RWyerve45cbdKf1+DxnZOU7WnfDcgrMzIzMyxOKxONTvYd5FYTiFBXzpJoKpAg+OEorXZpn2xmmlNEMq7XNcLBbtPIvVxqNSOAVchX71k5gM8I157AI/g0B1lLFdeLRfL/FN9j4hSmz19k5OYBg/gNc=
x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:DBXPR07MB462;
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <DBXPR07MB4625D07C77435870B3CB918D6960@DBXPR07MB462.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:;
x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(601004)(2401047)(5005006)(8121501046)(3002001)(10201501046); SRVR:DBXPR07MB462; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:DBXPR07MB462;
x-forefront-prvs: 0911D5CE78
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(377454003)(24454002)(3660700001)(82746002)(3280700002)(92566002)(561944003)(5008740100001)(33656002)(122556002)(2906002)(15975445007)(4326007)(74482002)(77096005)(81166005)(50226001)(2950100001)(19580405001)(86362001)(10400500002)(57306001)(110136002)(5004730100002)(16236675004)(189998001)(19580395003)(6116002)(586003)(106116001)(1220700001)(36756003)(50986999)(87936001)(1096002)(76176999)(19617315012)(83716003)(5002640100001)(102836003)(11100500001)(3826002)(104396002)(217873001)(4533004); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:DBXPR07MB462; H:DBXPR07MB462.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en;
spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:23
spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: jisc.ac.uk
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 13 Apr 2016 11:18:24.6387 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 48f9394d-8a14-4d27-82a6-f35f12361205
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DBXPR07MB462
X-MC-Unique: g5VLurNmR2CtKWyMbu2FoA-1
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_90CC41CF9F3D44DB8A23AFB34321748Ejiscacuk_"
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/J2icSzI2g68u2klmbYrEXubrRtM>
Cc: 6man WG <ipv6@ietf.org>, v6ops list <v6ops@ietf.org>
X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" <ipv6.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/>
List-Post: <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 11:18:39 -0000

On 9 Apr 2016, at 14:11, Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com<mailto:markzzzsmith@gmail.com>> wrote:

On 9 Apr 2016 8:55 PM, "Sander Steffann" <sander@steffann.nl<mailto:sander@steffann.nl>> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> > On 08 Apr 2016, at 13:27, otroan@employees.org<mailto:otroan@employees.org> wrote:
> >
> > Here is an interesting draft being presented in dnsop today.
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-vavrusa-dnsop-aaaa-for-free/?include_text=1
> >
> > The proposal is to allow AAAA records in response to A queries.
>
> One question: if clients send requests for both A and AAAA records simultaneously, how will including the AAAA answer in the A request help? The client will just get the AAAA answer twice: once on the A request and once on the AAAA request. If lookups were serialised and the A request/response was completed before starting the AAAA request it would make the second request unnecessary, but that's not what I see in practice...
>
> It looks like good intentions, I'm just trying to figure out how this would work in practice :)

Having briefly looked at it, it seems there is an efficiency benefit. However, answering an A query with both an A and AAAA response might incentivise just sending A queries.

Perhaps the opposite would be better - sending an AAAA query would result in an AAAA and A answer. That might create a small and subtle incentive to use and prefer IPv6, with Happy Eyeballs covering over IPv6 failures.

I am aware of ISPs who have deployed IPv6 to their customers, knowing they needed to scale their DNS provision, but have still had to hold further deployment until this was achieved.  It’s not a huge issue, but any measures to help address scalability as you add IPv6 are likely to be welcomed.

But as others have pointed out, there are practicalities with the proposal.

Tim

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email