Re: Transmission of IPv6 Jumbograms as Atomic Fragments
"Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> Wed, 17 November 2021 23:39 UTC
Return-Path: <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 169E23A00AE for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 17 Nov 2021 15:39:51 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.099
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=boeing.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N02ev2x4fwYn for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 17 Nov 2021 15:39:45 -0800 (PST)
Received: from clt-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (clt-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.144.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AD15D3A00B3 for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Wed, 17 Nov 2021 15:39:45 -0800 (PST)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clt-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id 1AHNdg0K001289; Wed, 17 Nov 2021 18:39:44 -0500
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=boeing.com; s=boeing-s1912; t=1637192384; bh=z8IRqbtx6CjKs1EPdcr9PG2iBoqHzRvaooLRM7B312c=; h=From:To:CC:Subject:Date:From; b=GFM/7DOlsEQyr6ZnS6vpcQ25VI0DTetbHImMaQvJoDBZHWbs1ko0yQj6O8NfVtOYa jHIXFl7V9ypsxXRQrf1mUaH850t5eIms9PmJbvljhv4Ah4guS2QMtmMJ7v6IKT36bV QUgzc0q3XEBAv0vxPkh4na24tF+E7ms4W4m4VFOrHmonu4sAiVZuWBRea2kIv8Hu2W 75zTXEnHTRNZDB+HfpuliZvZPEvc8XJK5x3fR5PpXYo4Lgt+29wTlTbv0j0S9xRckP WpJx4qizgqFIR5Eg+WdYA+8gecOBhhkPTZyYXsTuRRfu8uY9btjRAk9P2n1YWbtYev zWcTu9VZRyCFw==
Received: from XCH16-07-07.nos.boeing.com (xch16-07-07.nos.boeing.com [144.115.66.109]) by clt-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/8.15.2/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTPS id 1AHNdcXL001193 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 17 Nov 2021 18:39:38 -0500
Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.112) by XCH16-07-07.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.109) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.2308.14; Wed, 17 Nov 2021 15:39:37 -0800
Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::1522:f068:5766:53b5]) by XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::1522:f068:5766:53b5%2]) with mapi id 15.01.2308.014; Wed, 17 Nov 2021 15:39:37 -0800
From: "Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
To: David Farmer <farmer@umn.edu>
CC: 6man <ipv6@ietf.org>, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Transmission of IPv6 Jumbograms as Atomic Fragments
Thread-Topic: Transmission of IPv6 Jumbograms as Atomic Fragments
Thread-Index: AdfcC2OXuBuY8UwbS2Oogj1kY4gbqA==
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 23:39:37 +0000
Message-ID: <e9af505844944fb182fb4a9923f54d65@boeing.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-originating-ip: [144.115.204.6]
x-tm-snts-smtp: 14658EA44A8BB709A1B269511C74285FAD7346B6031E02DEA50DB176790FA78F2000:8
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_e9af505844944fb182fb4a9923f54d65boeingcom_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/sLwLilMy-A5WYrNeEZJTocVjzOw>
X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" <ipv6.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/>
List-Post: <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 23:39:52 -0000
Let me add a bit more clarity, then. IPv6 made a bit of a mistake when it presumed that the only reason a packet might need an Identification value was to support the fragmentation and reassembly process. Hence, the Identification was strictly tied to the Fragment Header. But, it turns out there are other reasons to include an unpredictable ID with an IPv6 packet (jumbos included) that have nothing to do with fragmentation. Since the only way to get an Identification in IPv6-land is to include a Fragment Header, then that is just what we are going to have to do. – again, jumbos included. Thanks - Fred From: David Farmer [mailto:farmer@umn.edu] Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 3:27 PM To: Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> Cc: 6man <ipv6@ietf.org>; Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Transmission of IPv6 Jumbograms as Atomic Fragments While I see no reason to depreciate RFC2675, without evidence of actual active use of jumbograms or at least an intent to use them, but for the issue you describe prevents it, I see no reason to advance the update you propose. Even in the R&E networking community where we make regular use of data grams larger than 1500 bytes, I’m not aware of the use of, or even a desire to use, jumbograms. Thanks On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 16:45 Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com<mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>> wrote: Brian, I came through the supercomputer lab at NASA Ames in Mt View CA in 1996/7 where HiPPI was heavily used. I didn't spend much time there, but enough to get a rough read that large packets are plausible. At some time not long after that, I had the good fortune to meet Dave Borman and asked him about RFC2675 with a "YMBK" pre-disposition toward the concept. Dave assured me that the document was serious, and I do not see evidence that it has been deprecated. So, do I know of any such mega-links? Not offhand, but AFAICT RFC2675 is still part of the IPv6 architecture and needs to be honored as such. Thanks - Fred > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian E Carpenter [mailto:brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com<mailto:brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>] > Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 1:39 PM > To: Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com<mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>>; 6man <ipv6@ietf.org<mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>> > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Transmission of IPv6 Jumbograms as Atomic Fragments > > EXT email: be mindful of links/attachments. > > > > Fred, > > Is there any evidence of usage of jumbograms? To my knowledge, even the high energy phsyics community, one of the main proponents of > jumbograms back in the days when HIPPI seemed important, doesn't use them, despite extensive use of IPv6 for bulk data. > > Regards > Brian > > On 18-Nov-21 06:54, Templin (US), Fred L wrote: > > Here is a new draft that may be of interest. It is a quick read (~2pgs) and proposes to > > update RFC2675 by permitting transmission of IPv6 jumbograms as atomic fragments. > > > > Please post comments to the list. > > > > Fred > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf.org<mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 9:09 AM > > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org<mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org> > > Subject: I-D Action: draft-templin-6man-jumbofrag-00.txt > > > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > > > > > > Title : Transmission of IPv6 Jumbograms as Atomic Fragments > > Author : Fred L. Templin > > Filename : draft-templin-6man-jumbofrag-00.txt > > Pages : 4 > > Date : 2021-11-17 > > > > Abstract: > > Internet Protocol, Version 6 (IPv6) provides a service for > > transmission of IPv6 packets larger than 65,535 octets known as > > "jumbograms". Such large packets are not eligible for fragmentation, > > and the current specification forbids the inclusion of a fragment > > header of any kind. However, some implementations may wish to > > include an Identification value with each jumbogram; hence this > > document proposes the transmission of IPv6 jumbograms as "atomic > > fragments". > > > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-6man-jumbofrag/ > > > > There is also an htmlized version available at: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-templin-6man-jumbofrag-00 > > > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > I-D-Announce mailing list > > I-D-Announce@ietf.org<mailto:I-D-Announce@ietf.org> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > ipv6@ietf.org<mailto:ipv6@ietf.org> > > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org<mailto:ipv6@ietf.org> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- =============================================== David Farmer Email:farmer@umn.edu<mailto:Email%3Afarmer@umn.edu> Networking & Telecommunication Services Office of Information Technology University of Minnesota 2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815 Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952 ===============================================
- Transmission of IPv6 Jumbograms as Atomic Fragmen… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Transmission of IPv6 Jumbograms as Atomic Fra… Brian E Carpenter
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Transmission of IPv6 Jumbogram… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Transmission of IPv6 Jumbogram… David Farmer
- Re: Transmission of IPv6 Jumbograms as Atomic Fra… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Transmission of IPv6 Jumbograms as Atomic Fra… Michael Richardson
- Re: Transmission of IPv6 Jumbograms as Atomic Fra… Bob Hinden
- Re: Transmission of IPv6 Jumbograms as Atomic Fra… Justin Iurman
- RE: Transmission of IPv6 Jumbograms as Atomic Fra… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Transmission of IPv6 Jumbograms as Atomic Fra… Bob Hinden
- Re: Transmission of IPv6 Jumbograms as Atomic Fra… Justin Iurman
- Re: Transmission of IPv6 Jumbograms as Atomic Fra… Philip Homburg
- Re: Transmission of IPv6 Jumbograms as Atomic Fra… Nick Hilliard
- Re: Transmission of IPv6 Jumbograms as Atomic Fra… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Transmission of IPv6 Jumbograms as Atomic Fra… Mark Smith
- Re: Transmission of IPv6 Jumbograms as Atomic Fra… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Transmission of IPv6 Jumbograms as Atomic Fra… Justin Iurman
- Re: Transmission of IPv6 Jumbograms as Atomic Fra… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Transmission of IPv6 Jumbograms as Atomic Fra… Tom Herbert
- Re: Transmission of IPv6 Jumbograms as Atomic Fra… Mark Smith
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Transmission of IPv6 Jumbogram… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Transmission of IPv6 Jumbogram… David Farmer
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Transmission of IPv6 Jumbogram… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Transmission of IPv6 Jumbogram… Mark Smith
- Re: Transmission of IPv6 Jumbograms as Atomic Fra… Carsten Bormann
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Transmission of IPv6 Jumbogram… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Transmission of IPv6 Jumbogram… Nick Hilliard
- Re: Transmission of IPv6 Jumbograms as Atomic Fra… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Transmission of IPv6 Jumbograms as Atomic Fra… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: Transmission of IPv6 Jumbograms as Atomic Fra… Templin (US), Fred L