Re: [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter
Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com> Thu, 25 January 2018 19:25 UTC
Return-Path: <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6455112EA55; Thu, 25 Jan 2018 11:25:33 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.688
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.688 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4MSdg3TEATt2; Thu, 25 Jan 2018 11:25:29 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-wm0-x230.google.com (mail-wm0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C6C612EA53; Thu, 25 Jan 2018 11:25:29 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-wm0-x230.google.com with SMTP id v123so16926666wmd.5; Thu, 25 Jan 2018 11:25:29 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=RxwwERwpQC0CTOXpSYwc50SeGLts+hrOGoHKxPDzlUU=; b=iIGMH8dUcgyoN6OF9i3p5Iw3t+dx2O04OzYIHMQmlmeH4Dz9ZOaRPt0877UM5RNCcH dDSKiEaNfXl9aDn5cfKTdnIJNPgZRPuG5uqKO0PovOUJAIG4+RqYbMjg6QR0qdveO3wd lDpimB4orygeQjkLD0gBB2cl4sxVOUk2OFeH7VNOTuAY68I64Y3AIAoJNw4iOeq8Qh0M bLoph8A4IWl3G+9WX7h07nsM1SDGXiDbCYqobBBPKwdifgDG/qTmPkuI4N5JMGGH+uYL e23OkthKfjme6foJjN42Vh5ybSlXGbtnE/y4B9sCGmAJfavzcu9YYHKNHiFf97mOZljH ElCg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=RxwwERwpQC0CTOXpSYwc50SeGLts+hrOGoHKxPDzlUU=; b=pmGXQuSwP3WKVyXQnHdfK5SOC1gKpEkcv600/ZKeI+c6F4C86/hDex48o6Ka1QW0Bj Rtq33YeSPA2nunOqDYB7W1APQl/adJkv5ywvm/JyhTkOVU0bQ+YjpgpnXPoO/+kDZEUR NfymdFJOk1kTu9sQ3Ewc0yjk2Jx+lKgTDHFIFS7N+VF8baRIsKgnuSOq5IOISr5D2tnG IaqLWna7u4ybcrWemTDP5JLbshU8FnY4cRli281DBDWdBWTsr2P1AbghBorzvjv38iph mp5y/tE2Z102AvKoS3sYRLy+k9OBcmwMayuEx/UGJMutgCsRxmYiHjUBcriyR0b/60UP 6VUg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AKwxytdsXCkihsAFWi/3m3BgoB7XuZjPLUkH/mrRi6cB2Y+IAL/GkbPG 9DkkB5t+tFoGXNj3+Ss1ho0jnGO4
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x224riOM/KLL9XTq+cUrx+U+r/cbRyAPCKvhYD7lcTCdNzS+7qJpapYhiCJLWZAgEmBZPTJcORA==
X-Received: by 10.28.46.22 with SMTP id u22mr8139455wmu.47.1516908327323; Thu, 25 Jan 2018 11:25:27 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [192.168.2.126] (host213-123-124-182.in-addr.btopenworld.com. [213.123.124.182]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v186sm2200569wmf.17.2018.01.25.11.25.25 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 25 Jan 2018 11:25:26 -0800 (PST)
To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>
Cc: OSPF List <ospf@ietf.org>, "isis-wg@ietf.org" <isis-wg@ietf.org>
References: <CAG4d1rfR5Y85T_wNSVXB0WL4C8THyAkgevr6DyH1xcO=R+sOVQ@mail.gmail.com> <0ae3753a-9037-9199-e61d-b4e15089be73@gmail.com> <CAG4d1rfB_iBFMi2zvC=HKZ8PeP7U4ncVkXrGDm7cZvuo9EF6Sg@mail.gmail.com> <5418BD5D-9E5E-49F1-A44C-FC60C3EDF391@cisco.com> <59176f74-28d1-416b-5737-91dbf6d3a833@gmail.com> <5057145faa60474e8870dc2456c3a350@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <4ec12a3e88ce419eb214da5f3009a4dd@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <79001995-1461-7087-2b9a-3ef5802c27f6@gmail.com> <e36ae5811b5041e7a9467a5b1dd577b6@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com>
From: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fe46bc0f-299e-f02a-e988-b4d1c3df6b99@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2018 19:25:25 +0000
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.5.2
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <e36ae5811b5041e7a9467a5b1dd577b6@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------8FA424529076A45F96DA55DB"
Content-Language: en-GB
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/isis-wg/8SK-jMXPqOW5hwAtxQXFBm7b_dU>
Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter
X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group <isis-wg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/isis-wg>, <mailto:isis-wg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/isis-wg/>
List-Post: <mailto:isis-wg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:isis-wg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg>, <mailto:isis-wg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2018 19:25:33 -0000
On 25/01/2018 18:59, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > > Stewart - > > *From:*Stewart Bryant [mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Thursday, January 25, 2018 4:32 AM > *To:* Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; Acee Lindem (acee) > <acee@cisco.com>; Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com> > *Cc:* OSPF List <ospf@ietf.org>; isis-wg@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter > > Les > > I agree wrt L2 > > Isn't another focus collecting the information to feed into an SDN > controller via BGP-LS? That is really network layer state collection > rather than routing in the traditional sense. > > */[Les:] Please do not propose such language. This raises the old > discussion about using the IGPs as a transport for “just about > anything”./* > > */We long ago agreed that TE related information was “routing > information” – if for no other reason than it was grandfathered in. > But this does not alter the IGP’s focus on routing./* > > */I know we “stretch” the definition with things like MSD and S-BFD > discriminators, but I see these as carefully considered choices – and > ones w modest impact./* > > */Institutionalizing the IGPs as an “SDN Distribution Protocol” is not > something I want in the charter./* > > */Les/* > > *//* > Hi Les, I don't see it quite like that. I don't think we flood a lot of the SDN specific information do we? We just use the LSP data structures as a convenient encoding, and supplement the information we flood with additional information. If we were flooding it I would share your concern, but I don't see the reuse of the syntax which is what BGP-LS does as quite such a problem. Am I missing something here? - Stewart > - Stewart > > On 24/01/2018 23:09, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > > It occurred to me after sending this that perhaps a better > statement as regards IS-IS would be: > > “LSR’s work is focused on IP/IPv6 and Layer 2 routing…” > > though admittedly there isn’t much going on as regards Layer2 and > IS-IS at the moment. > > Les > > *From:*Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of > *Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 24, 2018 2:33 PM > *To:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com> > <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>; Acee Lindem (acee) > <acee@cisco.com> <mailto:acee@cisco.com>; Alia Atlas > <akatlas@gmail.com> <mailto:akatlas@gmail.com> > *Cc:* OSPF List <ospf@ietf.org> <mailto:ospf@ietf.org>; > isis-wg@ietf.org <mailto:isis-wg@ietf.org> > *Subject:* Re: [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter > > Since a charter only provides a general definition of the work > that falls within the purview of the WG it requires some adjunct > to keep track of the current priorities. > > That could be the list of milestones (which OSPF has regularly > maintained – but IS-IS has not) – or it could simply be the list > of active WG documents. > > I just don’t see that we should expect the charter to express > “work in progress” now – or in the future. > > Alia – do you think the statement about IS-IS: > > “LSR’s work is focused on IP routing…” > > Could be improved by saying > > “LSR’s work is focused on IP/IPv6 routing…” > > ??? > > Les > > *From:*Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of > *Stewart Bryant > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 24, 2018 10:01 AM > *To:* Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com <mailto:acee@cisco.com>>; > Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com <mailto:akatlas@gmail.com>> > *Cc:* OSPF List <ospf@ietf.org <mailto:ospf@ietf.org>>; > isis-wg@ietf.org <mailto:isis-wg@ietf.org> > *Subject:* Re: [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter > > Yes that fixes that. > > How about: > > s/The following topics are expected to be an initial focus:/ In > addition to ongoing maintenance, the following topics are expected > to be an initial focus:/ > > I am just concerned that we need not to loose focus on work in > progress. > > - Stewart > > On 24/01/2018 17:54, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > > How about: > > LSR will coordinate with CCAMP and BIER on their extensions to > the LSR IGPs as > > applicable to LSV protocol operation and scale. > > Thanks, > > Acee > > *From: *Isis-wg > <isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org><mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org>on > behalf of Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com><mailto:akatlas@gmail.com> > *Date: *Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 12:42 PM > *To: *Stewart Bryant > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com><mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com> > *Cc: *OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org><mailto:ospf@ietf.org>, > "isis-wg@ietf.org"<mailto:isis-wg@ietf.org><isis-wg@ietf.org><mailto:isis-wg@ietf.org> > *Subject: *Re: [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter > > Hi Stewart, > > Thanks for the quick feedback. Feel free to provide > suggestions for text changes if you have them. > > You've certainly written enough charters :-) > > Regards, > > Alia > > On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 12:32 PM, Stewart Bryant > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Alia, > > I think that this merger is long overdue, and hopefully it > will help new features to be written in an aligned way. > > I think the remit to perform general maintenance should > slightly clarified since the way the charter is written > they look like they are at a lower priority than the > enumerated list. > > I would have thought that "LSR can coordinate with CCAMP > and BIER on their extensions " should have been more > directive. > > - Stewart > > On 24/01/2018 17:18, Alia Atlas wrote: > > Here is the proposed charter for the LSR working group > > that will be created from the SPF and ISIS working groups. > > This is scheduled for internal review for the IESG > telechat on February 8. > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-lsr/ > > The Link-State Routing (LSR) Working Group is > chartered to document current protocol implementation > practices and improvements, protocol usage scenarios, > maintenance and extensions of link-state routing > interior gateway protocols (IGPs) with a focus on > IS-IS, OSPFv2, and OSPFv3. The LSR Working Group is > formed by merging the isis and ospf WGs and will take > on all their existing adopted work at the time of > chartering. > > IS-IS is an IGP specified and standardized by ISO > through ISO 10589:2002 and additional RFC standards > with extensions to support IP that has been deployed > in the Internet for decades. For the IS-IS protocol, > LSR’s work is focused on IP routing, currently based > on the agreement in RFC 3563 with ISO/JTC1/SC6. The > LSR WG will interact with other standards bodies that > have responsible for standardizing IS-IS. > > OSPFv2 [RFC 2328 and extensions], is an IGP that has > been deployed in the Internet for decades. OSPFv3 > [RFC5340 and extensions] provides OSPF for IPv6 and > IPv4 [RFC5838] which can be delivered over IPv6 or > IPv4 [RFC 7949]. > > The LSR Working Group will generally manage its > specific work items by milestones agreed with the > responsible Area Director. > > The following topics are expected to be an initial focus: > > 1) Improving OSPF support for IPv6 and extensions > using OSPFv3 LSA Extendibility. > > 2) Extensions needed for Segment Routing and > associated architectural changes > > 3) YANG models for IS-IS, OSPFv2, and OSPFv3 and > extensions > > 4) Extensions for source-destination routing > [draft-ietf-rtgwg-dst-src-routing] > > 5) Potentially, extensions to better support specific > network topologies such as > > ones commonly used in data centers. > > The Link-State Routing (LSR) Working Group will > coordinate with other working groups, such as RTGWG, > SPRING, MPLS, TEAS, V6OPS, and 6MAN, to understand the > need for extensions and to confirm that the planned > work meets the needs. LSR can coordinate with CCAMP > and BIER on their extensions to the LSR IGPs as > useful. LSR may coordinate with other WGs as needed. > > Regards, > > Alia > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Isis-wg mailing list > > Isis-wg@ietf.org<mailto:Isis-wg@ietf.org> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg >
- [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Alia Atlas
- Re: [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Stewart Bryant
- Re: [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Alia Atlas
- Re: [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Acee Lindem (acee)
- Re: [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Stewart Bryant
- Re: [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Alia Atlas
- Re: [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [Isis-wg] [OSPF] Link-State Routing WG charter Jeff Tantsura
- Re: [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Alia Atlas
- Re: [Isis-wg] [OSPF] Link-State Routing WG charter Alia Atlas
- Re: [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Stewart Bryant
- Re: [Isis-wg] [OSPF] Link-State Routing WG charter Julien Meuric
- Re: [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Acee Lindem (acee)
- Re: [Isis-wg] [OSPF] Link-State Routing WG charter Dearlove, Christopher (UK)
- Re: [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Acee Lindem (acee)
- Re: [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Stewart Bryant
- Re: [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore)
- Re: [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore)
- Re: [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Alia Atlas
- Re: [Isis-wg] [OSPF] Link-State Routing WG charter Jeff Tantsura
- Re: [Isis-wg] [OSPF] Link-State Routing WG charter Stewart Bryant
- Re: [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Alia Atlas