Re: [Jmap] Best vs Good enough - adoption of JMAP

Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com> Wed, 26 April 2017 14:55 UTC

Return-Path: <ned.freed@mrochek.com>
X-Original-To: jmap@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: jmap@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 893BC12EBC8 for <jmap@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 26 Apr 2017 07:55:15 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.003
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.003 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=mrochek.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7oVtwHJXQc8x for <jmap@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 26 Apr 2017 07:55:14 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mauve.mrochek.com (mauve.mrochek.com [68.183.62.69]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8426C12EAF3 for <jmap@ietf.org>; Wed, 26 Apr 2017 07:55:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from dkim-sign.mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01QDMIL2S51S008862@mauve.mrochek.com> for jmap@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2017 07:51:28 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=mrochek.com; s=mauve; t=1493218288; bh=JvoEvD8KmV7JHIT0OtMqhwn/0JA+rJux1s9upMdd6CU=; h=Cc:Date:From:Subject:In-reply-to:References:To; b=MUjqo9+WkV3P0Iu9bL9MJKIr8HUNovSjVQjvXsPln3NOaVtF1oC8Z5TDkg6sS5NVM nsm3FVb4jlwHUXjMD3Xt/ATItTGXrLQLf8fxsI0raldKl2IQoJPj/ABGGIaXHuvTkJ RxcFjIyEwQ+iQVfz2cFrnUvexIwzk8ofJTVdvXSc=
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET="us-ascii"
Received: from mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01QDLR9E01A800008D@mauve.mrochek.com>; Wed, 26 Apr 2017 07:51:25 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com>, Chris Newman <chris.newman@oracle.com>, jmap@ietf.org, Neil Jenkins <neilj@fastmail.com>
Message-id: <01QDMIL0HUYS00008D@mauve.mrochek.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2017 07:41:28 -0700
From: Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com>
In-reply-to: "Your message dated Wed, 26 Apr 2017 10:39:28 -0400" <4488B4E2-53A0-44E4-911A-3A67B7EF67FC@fugue.com>
References: <em8b177018-4769-44ea-b033-90bd8155d11b@bodybag> <46F700A6-C2B1-488B-A8B4-6ACD45B03C31@oracle.com> <CFC38D13-0CB2-4ABF-9403-DF0F773314B7@fugue.com> <D35A79C2-3918-4BB7-B97D-D56CA7548DCD@oracle.com> <1493099769.3023399.955193288.6D0312CC@webmail.messagingengine.com> <33553450-82F4-4CB4-8679-C9F52D8A8839@oracle.com> <1493163974.4122214.956244160.6735E49C@webmail.messagingengine.com> <EDCC6149-9222-468E-A17B-DDBA88A52D95@oracle.com> <01QDMH1QNOUK00008D@mauve.mrochek.com> <4488B4E2-53A0-44E4-911A-3A67B7EF67FC@fugue.com>
To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/jmap/bBFwfiK0Yd7axk2_xQRdq3zb9p4>
Subject: Re: [Jmap] Best vs Good enough - adoption of JMAP
X-BeenThere: jmap@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: JSON Message Access Protocol <jmap.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/jmap>, <mailto:jmap-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/jmap/>
List-Post: <mailto:jmap@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:jmap-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jmap>, <mailto:jmap-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2017 14:55:15 -0000

> On Apr 26, 2017, at 9:45 AM, Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com> wrote:
> > Now take these semantics and multiply them by the number of users you have,
> > which can be in the many millions. And while sometimes you can treat
> > this as single, system-wide queue for monitoring purposes, sometimes
> > you'll need to lookup and probably monitor on a per-user basis.

> Of course, when the user calls in with a problem with their email, the fact
> that all the information about that user's email is in their unique mail store
> is kind of convenient.

Actually, it offers no utility whatsoever. If you provide the ability to answer
such queries at high scale, you do it based on trasactional information
produced by the message transport infrastructure. This information is fed into
some kind of database that lets you lookup whatever you want for whatever
combination of sender, recipient, time window, etc. you want to support.

You most certainly don't want to do it by accessing the mailstores. They
carry enough load as it is; using them to handle a problem that's easily
separable makes no sense.

There's also a nontrivial security separation concern here. The access rights
associated with being able to look at transaction data are not the same as the
rights needed to look at message content.

				Ned