Re: [Json] What are we trying to do?

Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com> Wed, 03 July 2013 21:31 UTC

Return-Path: <nico@cryptonector.com>
X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2490111E8259 for <json@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 3 Jul 2013 14:31:41 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.95
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.95 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.027, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qlBioZ9VgnYV for <json@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 3 Jul 2013 14:31:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from homiemail-a24.g.dreamhost.com (caiajhbdcbef.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.145]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3648111E80EA for <json@ietf.org>; Wed, 3 Jul 2013 14:31:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from homiemail-a24.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a24.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9637D2C806B for <json@ietf.org>; Wed, 3 Jul 2013 14:31:34 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=cryptonector.com; h= mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from :to:cc:content-type; s=cryptonector.com; bh=Wdxk/J02ku59h7+pAuiX 6f13igY=; b=uUCiQz6xHmJu7Bis1oTb4WHTp2Poavqe6fw9M6TWDKndTcrb0IL4 6Wp3z8Vpw9rNrfxbxId8tsotC/tz3/DNCDSqZlST46fg1z7J3CqGOo5fIsgPSaCq Xy+dbyIq3TXiDMj4kebN1b0h7lkNql/kE+pRLSCo2UMY9Dbr3PG6er0=
Received: from mail-we0-f171.google.com (mail-we0-f171.google.com [74.125.82.171]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: nico@cryptonector.com) by homiemail-a24.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45CB52C806D for <json@ietf.org>; Wed, 3 Jul 2013 14:31:34 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-we0-f171.google.com with SMTP id m46so539606wev.2 for <json@ietf.org>; Wed, 03 Jul 2013 14:31:32 -0700 (PDT)
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=Dl4rIsXkbsGsU6KfgstSTVBAKkALp3QVw/CTk+vvDKE=; b=CHVyAdlvIb6vM/xJr86eV+sAjZWbJTpejygxdHEpmAoIt5j3muwxyd+6a0hP6pH32W UpnLnDLjlb0Ca4Lbnk/mFHPsP/5lNPUdk5UsR3yH6n5dGTMat4dKXYRSb0crIwp6IB6S onSg6V0c0oYmAxbsUGCFGIbP4wheoL+weJ3pZ5u3sravuIu1rZMIb9hQh9uy8Ycbrc2b GEMvIv9/YM6KpMmj+PUISaCXd3NWdIfVPYvfxFnjAzWzXVqgj1KoY+DJVBEpfT6pyCkr FD9f2r7qBozrvEjTEd7/2+GH7Bwu4ha5yKl8VNowNmCxTpezWdO93Nm2xBoayYCeOf87 FlOQ==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.180.77.74 with SMTP id q10mr19116892wiw.28.1372887092516; Wed, 03 Jul 2013 14:31:32 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.216.152.73 with HTTP; Wed, 3 Jul 2013 14:31:32 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <1AB34263-877A-43FC-899E-4681F90BD7B8@tzi.org>
References: <CAHBU6iv0wXYvAyasSE8Wga0K_sD_pKL6o-a-ca9yemhy3m6zzw@mail.gmail.com> <FB90FFED-5128-4B5C-85DE-78DFE2674310@vpnc.org> <CAK3OfOjvtU6=3EowmU0ccWAfQPSoGaUhPMLe+uK6pVR_sQDGFg@mail.gmail.com> <1AB34263-877A-43FC-899E-4681F90BD7B8@tzi.org>
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2013 16:31:32 -0500
Message-ID: <CAK3OfOg7u4KFWzRcKB7wd-WBhs_cow4Vf=CzabQJz=mwtw=cXQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com>
To: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Cc: Tim Bray <tbray@textuality.com>, Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>, "json@ietf.org" <json@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Json] What are we trying to do?
X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" <json.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/json>, <mailto:json-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/json>
List-Post: <mailto:json@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:json-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/json>, <mailto:json-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2013 21:31:41 -0000

On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 2:42 PM, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
> On Jul 3, 2013, at 18:29, Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com> wrote:
>
>> leave the rest mostly as-is
>
> That means that every user of JSON has to define their own additional clarifications, as JOSE has started to do.
> In effect, each user creates their own little dialect.

Why couldn't they reference the BCP?

But as I said, I also don't mind us publishing an "Internet JSON".
We'd have to grapple with the meaning of the existing MIME type for
JSON, but JOSE could normatively reference "Internet JSON" and be
done.

I guess that's a lot of choices.

> A textbook example for how to create soup.
>
> I'd rather have 2 or 3 flavors of JSON than n, where n is the number of users.
> (Or, if it has to be, 2 or 3 on/off pizza toppings each of which can be selected or deselected.)

Well, yes, but those N happen to mostly interop.  I'm not sure that
we've seen claims of non-interoperability for any applications, just
differences in JSON implementations which most definitely *can* cause
interop problems, but maybe they never happen because users implicitly
end up sticking to interoperable subsets of JSON.  Not robust, but the
world has been working anyways.

Nico
--