Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-oldversions-deprecate-09.txt> (Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1.1) to Best Current Practice
Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com> Tue, 01 December 2020 12:57 UTC
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To: Peter Gutmann <pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz>, Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>, "last-call@ietf.org" <last-call@ietf.org>
Cc: "draft-ietf-tls-oldversions-deprecate@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-tls-oldversions-deprecate@ietf.org>, "tls-chairs@ietf.org" <tls-chairs@ietf.org>, "tls@ietf.org" <tls@ietf.org>
References: <160496076356.8063.5138064792555453422@ietfa.amsl.com> <49d045a3-db46-3250-9587-c4680ba386ed@network-heretics.com> <b5314e17-645a-22ea-3ce9-78f208630ae1@cs.tcd.ie> <1606782600388.62069@cs.auckland.ac.nz> <0b72b2aa-73b6-1916-87be-d83e9d0ebd09@cs.tcd.ie> <1606814941532.76373@cs.auckland.ac.nz>
From: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
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Date: Tue, 01 Dec 2020 07:57:46 -0500
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/last-call/6_8Mj9ZgPIt4y1aJdDGxcxk4b88>
Subject: Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-oldversions-deprecate-09.txt> (Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1.1) to Best Current Practice
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On 12/1/20 4:29 AM, Peter Gutmann wrote: > I think all it needs is something along the lines of "This BCP applies to TLS > as used on the public Internet [Not part of the text but meaning the area that > the IETF creates standards for]. Not specifically relevant to this draft, but: Is it actually defined anywhere that IETF standards only apply to the public Internet? IMO IETF needs to realize that implementations of its standards are used outside of the public Internet and consider that when writing its documents. (even though different rules may be appropriate on private and mostly-isolated networks) Keith p.s. I keep thinking that this "MUST NOT TLS < 1.2" recommendation is like a public health recommendation, one that is worded over-simply to try to make it have maximum useful effect but perhaps to the point of being misleading or even harmful. e.g. "You MUST wear masks to reduce the spread of COVID-19", but not saying "oh yeah, if you're outdoors and not around other people you're probably fine without a mask" and "masks are pointless if you only wear them over your mouths or chins", and "the masks that have valves in them to allow exhaled breath to exit unimpeded are also useless for this purpose" and "you need to wear them when indoors and around co-workers, not merely when customers or visitors are present". At least where I live I see so many people using masks in ineffective ways that I don't think the simple recommendation is working, though I'm not sure that a more detailed recommendation would work better.
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-oldver… tom petch
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-oldver… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-oldver… tom petch
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-oldver… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-oldver… Sean Turner
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-oldver… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-oldver… RFC ISE (Adrian Farrel)
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-oldver… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-oldver… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-oldver… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-oldver… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-oldver… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-oldver… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-oldver… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-oldver… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-oldver… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-oldver… Martin Duke
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Peter Gutmann
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Peter Gutmann
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Peter Gutmann
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Olle E. Johansson
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… STARK, BARBARA H
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… STARK, BARBARA H
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Peter Gutmann
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Peter Gutmann
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Ackermann, Michael
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… STARK, BARBARA H
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Bill Frantz
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Ackermann, Michael
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Joe Abley
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… STARK, BARBARA H
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Ackermann, Michael
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Gary Gapinski
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Watson Ladd
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… STARK, BARBARA H
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Ackermann, Michael
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Ben Smyth
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Ackermann, Michael
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Ackermann, Michael
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Ackermann, Michael
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… tom petch
- [Last-Call] Next steps on Deprecation/Obsolescenc… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Last-Call] Next steps on Deprecation/Obsoles… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Last-Call] Next steps on Deprecation/Obsoles… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Last-Call] Next steps on Deprecation/Obsoles… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Ackermann, Michael
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Last-Call] Next steps on Deprecation/Obsoles… Ackermann, Michael
- Re: [Last-Call] Next steps on Deprecation/Obsoles… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Ackermann, Michael
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Christian de Larrinaga
- Re: [Last-Call] Next steps on Deprecation/Obsoles… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: [Last-Call] Next steps on Deprecation/Obsoles… Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: [Last-Call] Next steps on Deprecation/Obsoles… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Last-Call] Next steps on Deprecation/Obsoles… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Last-Call] Next steps on Deprecation/Obsoles… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Last-Call] Next steps on Deprecation/Obsoles… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Last-Call] Next steps on Deprecation/Obsoles… Stewart Bryant
- Re: [Last-Call] Next steps on Deprecation/Obsoles… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Last-Call] Next steps on Deprecation/Obsoles… Christian de Larrinaga
- Re: [Last-Call] Next steps on Deprecation/Obsoles… Kathleen Moriarty
- [Last-Call] How old is too old and what this mean… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Last-Call] Next steps on Deprecation/Obsoles… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Last-Call] Next steps on Deprecation/Obsoles… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Peter Gutmann
- Re: [Last-Call] [TLS] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-oldver… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-oldver… tom petch
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-oldver… tom petch
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-oldver… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: <draft-ietf-tls-oldver… tom petch