Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang-lsr-isis-mfi-00.txt
Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com> Fri, 05 March 2021 15:56 UTC
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To: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Cc: Aijun Wang <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>, Huzhibo <huzhibo@huawei.com>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>, Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li>, lsr <lsr@ietf.org>, wangyali <wangyali11@huawei.com>
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From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2021 16:56:50 +0100
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang-lsr-isis-mfi-00.txt
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Gyan, On 05/03/2021 16:46, Gyan Mishra wrote: > Yali > > I agree with a Peter. > > As for resource isolation and provisioning of a VTN I think you really > need separate LSDB instances provided by MT or MI as better suited for > network slicing. MT does not provide LSDB separation, only MI does. thanks, Peter > > To me it seems a common LSDB shared among network slices VTN underlay > could be problematic with network overlap issues. > > Kind Regards > > Gyan > > On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 10:28 AM Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com > <mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com>> wrote: > > Hi Yali, > > On 05/03/2021 15:31, wangyali wrote: > > Hi Peter, > > > > Thanks for your question. Please see inline [yali3]. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com > <mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com>] > > Sent: Thursday, March 4, 2021 11:20 PM > > To: wangyali <wangyali11@huawei.com > <mailto:wangyali11@huawei.com>>; Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com > <mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com>>; Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net > <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>> > > Cc: Huzhibo <huzhibo@huawei.com <mailto:huzhibo@huawei.com>>; > Aijun Wang <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn > <mailto:wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>>; Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li > <mailto:tony.li@tony.li>>; lsr <lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org>>; > Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com <mailto:zhoutianran@huawei.com>> > > Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for > draft-wang-lsr-isis-mfi-00.txt > > > > Hi Yali, > > > > On 04/03/2021 14:45, wangyali wrote: > >> Hi Peter, > >> > >> Please see inline [Yali2]. Thanks a lot. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com > <mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com>] > >> Sent: Thursday, March 4, 2021 6:50 PM > >> To: wangyali <wangyali11@huawei.com > <mailto:wangyali11@huawei.com>>; Gyan Mishra > >> <hayabusagsm@gmail.com <mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com>>; Robert > Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>> > >> Cc: Huzhibo <huzhibo@huawei.com <mailto:huzhibo@huawei.com>>; > Aijun Wang > >> <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn <mailto:wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>>; Tony > Li <tony.li@tony.li <mailto:tony.li@tony.li>>; lsr > >> <lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org>>; Tianran Zhou > <zhoutianran@huawei.com <mailto:zhoutianran@huawei.com>> > >> Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for > >> draft-wang-lsr-isis-mfi-00.txt > >> > >> Hi Yali, > >> > >> On 04/03/2021 11:42, wangyali wrote: > >>> Hi Peter, > >>> > >>> Please review follows tagged by [Yali]. > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com > <mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com>] > >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 3, 2021 5:37 PM > >>> To: wangyali <wangyali11@huawei.com > <mailto:wangyali11@huawei.com>>; Gyan Mishra > >>> <hayabusagsm@gmail.com <mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com>>; Robert > Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>> > >>> Cc: Huzhibo <huzhibo@huawei.com <mailto:huzhibo@huawei.com>>; > Aijun Wang > >>> <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn <mailto:wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>>; > Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li <mailto:tony.li@tony.li>>; lsr > >>> <lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org>>; Tianran Zhou > <zhoutianran@huawei.com <mailto:zhoutianran@huawei.com>> > >>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for > >>> draft-wang-lsr-isis-mfi-00.txt > >>> > >>> Yali, > >>> > >>> On 03/03/2021 06:02, wangyali wrote: > >>>> Hi Peter, > >>>> > >>>> Thanks for your comments. Yes. I am improving this sentence. > Please review the following update. > >>>> > >>>> OLD: " And Level 1/Level 2 PSNP and Level 1/Level 2 CSNP > containing information about LSPs that transmitted in a specific MFI > are generated to synchronize the LSDB corresponding to the specific > MFI." > >>>> > >>>> NEW: "And Level 1/Level 2 PSNP and Level 1/Level 2 CSNP > containing information about LSPs that transmitted in a specific MFI > are generated to synchronize the MFI-specific sub-LSDB. Each > MFI-specific sub-LSDB is subdivided from a single LSDB." > >>> > >>> please specify sub-LSDB. > >>> [Yali] Thanks for your comment. But to avoid introducing a new > term, I change to use "MFI-specific LSDB" instead of " MFI-specific > sub-LSDB ". And we give the explanation that "Each MFI-specific > LSDB is subdivided from a single LSDB." > >> > >> I wonder what is the difference between "MFI-specific LSDB > subdivided from a single LSDB" versus the "MFI-specific LSDB". > >> [Yali2]: Actually I am trying to optimize and accurately > describe the key point that multiple Update processes associated > with each MFI operate on a common LSDB within the zero IS-IS > instance, and each Update process is isolated from each other and > does not affect each other. > >> So we say "MFI-specific LSDB subdivided from a single LSDB", > which may explicitly indicate each MFI-specific LSDB shares a common > LSDB but each Update process associated with a MFI is isolated. > However, from your previous question and suggestions, "MFI-specific > LSDB" looks like unclear and misleading. Any good idea on improving > the expression are welcome. > > > > > > it's not the name that is as important. It's the concept that > looks questionable - how well can you isolate the update processing > if the data are part of the same LSDB and whether such update > process separation would prove to be useful at all. I don't know, so > far I have not seen any evidence. > > [yali3] This draft defines a new TLV, i.e. MFI-ID TLV, which may > be included in each Level 1/Level 2 IS-IS LSPs and SNPs. Hence, each > Level 1/Level 2 LSPs and SNPs associated with each Update Process > can be uniquely identified by MFI-ID. > > In this draft, each flooding instance has its own separated > Update process, which isolates the impact of application information > flooding on the IS-IS protocol operation. So each Level 1/Level 2 > LSP associated with a specific MFI carries flooding information > belonging to the specific MFI. And Level 1/Level 2 PSNP and Level > 1/Level 2 CSNP containing information about LSPs that propagated in > the specific MFI are generated to synchronize the MFI-specific LSDB. > > - by using the same LSDB to store the MFI specific information only a > limited separation can be achieved. Multi-instance gives you better > separation. > > - you carved the MFI specific LSP space from the common LSP space. This > may result in the non routing apps consuming the space that would > otherwise be required for regular routing information, compromising the > basic functionality of the protocol. Multi-instance does not have that > problem. > > my 2c, > Peter > > > > > > thanks, > > Peter > > > > > > > > > >> > >> thanks, > >> Peter > >> > >>> > >>> thanks, > >>> Peter > >>> > >>> > >>>> > >>>> Best, > >>>> Yali > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com > <mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com>] > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 2, 2021 5:12 PM > >>>> To: wangyali <wangyali11@huawei.com > <mailto:wangyali11@huawei.com>>; Gyan Mishra > >>>> <hayabusagsm@gmail.com <mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com>>; Robert > Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>> > >>>> Cc: Huzhibo <huzhibo@huawei.com <mailto:huzhibo@huawei.com>>; > Aijun Wang > >>>> <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn <mailto:wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>>; > Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li <mailto:tony.li@tony.li>>; lsr > >>>> <lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org>>; Tianran Zhou > <zhoutianran@huawei.com <mailto:zhoutianran@huawei.com>> > >>>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for > >>>> draft-wang-lsr-isis-mfi-00.txt > >>>> > >>>> Yali, > >>>> > >>>> On 01/03/2021 10:49, wangyali wrote: > >>>>> Hi Peter, > >>>>> > >>>>> Many thanks for your feedback. First of all, I'm sorry for > the confusion I had caused you from my previous misunderstanding. > >>>>> > >>>>> And I want to clarify that a single and common LSDB is shared > by all MFIs. > >>>> > >>>> well, the draft says: > >>>> > >>>> "information about LSPs that transmitted in a > >>>> specific MFI are generated to synchronize the LSDB > corresponding to > >>>> the specific MFI." > >>>> > >>>> If the above has changed, then please update the draft > accordingly. > >>>> > >>>> thanks, > >>>> Peter > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Best, > >>>>> Yali > >>>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com > <mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com>] > >>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2021 8:23 PM > >>>>> To: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com > <mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com>>; Robert Raszuk > >>>>> <robert@raszuk.net <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>> > >>>>> Cc: Huzhibo <huzhibo@huawei.com <mailto:huzhibo@huawei.com>>; > Aijun Wang > >>>>> <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn <mailto:wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>>; > Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li <mailto:tony.li@tony.li>>; lsr > >>>>> <lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org>>; Tianran Zhou > <zhoutianran@huawei.com <mailto:zhoutianran@huawei.com>>; wangyali > >>>>> <wangyali11@huawei.com <mailto:wangyali11@huawei.com>> > >>>>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for > >>>>> draft-wang-lsr-isis-mfi-00.txt > >>>>> > >>>>> Gyan, > >>>>> > >>>>> On 26/02/2021 17:19, Gyan Mishra wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> MFI seems more like flex algo with multiple sub topologies > sharing > >>>>>> a common links in a topology where RFC 8202 MI is separated at > >>>>>> the process level separate LSDB. So completely different and of > >>>>>> course different goals and use cases for MI versus MFI. > >>>>> > >>>>> I would not use the fle-algo analogy - all flex-algos operate > on top of a single LSDB, contrary to what is being proposed in MFI > draft. > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> MFI also seems to be a flood reduction mechanism by > creating > >>>>>> multiple sub topology instances within a common LSDB. There > are a > >>>>>> number of flood reduction drafts and this seems to be another > >>>>>> method of achieving the same. > >>>>> > >>>>> MFI draft proposes to keep the separate LSDB per MFI, so the > above analogy is not correct either. > >>>>> > >>>>> thanks, > >>>>> Peter > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Gyan > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 7:10 AM Robert Raszuk > <robert@raszuk.net <mailto:robert@raszuk.net> > >>>>>> <mailto:robert@raszuk.net <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Aijun, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> How multi instance is implemented is at the > discretion of a vendor. > >>>>>> It can be one process N threads or N processes. It > can be both and > >>>>>> operator may choose. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> MFI is just one process - by the spec - so it is > inferior. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Cheers, > >>>>>> R. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 12:44 PM Aijun Wang > <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn <mailto:wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn> > >>>>>> <mailto:wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn > <mailto:wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hi, Robert: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Separate into different protocol instances can > accomplish the > >>>>>> similar task, but it has some deployment overhead. > >>>>>> MFIs within one instance can avoid such > cumbersome work, and > >>>>>> doesn’t affect the basic routing calculation > process. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Aijun Wang > >>>>>> China Telecom > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Feb 26, 2021, at 19:00, Robert Raszuk > <robert@raszuk.net <mailto:robert@raszuk.net> > >>>>>>> <mailto:robert@raszuk.net > <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hi Yali, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> If this was precise, then the existing > multi-instance > >>>>>>> mechanism would be sufficient. > >>>>>>> [Yali]: MFI is a different solution we > recommend > <https://www.google.com/maps/search/lution+we+recommend?entry=gmail&source=g> > to solve > >>>>>>> this same and valuable issue. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Well the way I understand this proposal MFI is > much weaker > >>>>>>> solution in terms of required separation. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> In contrast RFC8202 allows to separate ISIS > instances at the > >>>>>>> process level, but here MFIs as defined must > be handled by the > >>>>>>> same ISIS process > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> This document defines an extension to > >>>>>>> IS-IS to allow*one standard instance* of > >>>>>>> the protocol to support multiple update > >>>>>>> process operations. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Thx, > >>>>>>> R. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> Lsr mailing list > >>>>>>> Lsr@ietf.org <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org> <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org > <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org>> > >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> Lsr mailing list > >>>>>> Lsr@ietf.org <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org> <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org > <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org>> > >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> > >>>>>> <http://www.verizon.com/> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *Gyan Mishra* > >>>>>> > >>>>>> /Network Solutions A//rchitect / > >>>>>> > >>>>>> /M 301 502-1347 > >>>>>> 13101 Columbia Pike > >>>>>> /Silver Spring, MD > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > <http://www.verizon.com/> > > *Gyan Mishra* > > /Network Solutions A//rchitect / > > /M 301 502-1347 > 13101 Columbia Pike > /Silver Spring, MD > >
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… wangyali
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Tony Li
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… wangyali
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… wangyali
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Tony Li
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… wangyali
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Aijun Wang
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Acee Lindem (acee)
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Peter Psenak
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… wangyali
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… wangyali
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… wangyali
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… wangyali
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Tony Li
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Peter Psenak
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… wangyali
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… wangyali
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Peter Psenak
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… wangyali
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Peter Psenak
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… wangyali
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Aijun Wang
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Peter Psenak
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… wangyali
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Peter Psenak
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Peter Psenak
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Tony Przygienda
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Tony Przygienda
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… wangyali
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Tony Przygienda
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Aijun Wang
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Tony Przygienda
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Acee Lindem (acee)
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Lizhenbin
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Lizhenbin
- Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang… Aijun Wang