[mailmaint] POLL: Expires issue #1: Require explicit recipient consent to delete messages
Ken Murchison <murch@fastmail.com> Wed, 04 September 2024 13:20 UTC
Return-Path: <murch@fastmail.com>
X-Original-To: mailmaint@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: mailmaint@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72CF1C14CEED for <mailmaint@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 4 Sep 2024 06:20:42 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -7.105
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.105 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fastmail.com header.b="SmFJDmSK"; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b="EsRZ2owD"
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tZRXs5wHt4ri for <mailmaint@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 4 Sep 2024 06:20:37 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from fout4-smtp.messagingengine.com (fout4-smtp.messagingengine.com [103.168.172.147]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7D9F7C1D4A99 for <mailmaint@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Sep 2024 06:20:37 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from phl-compute-01.internal (phl-compute-01.phl.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailfout.phl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FE5B1380248 for <mailmaint@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Sep 2024 09:20:36 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from phl-mailfrontend-02 ([10.202.2.163]) by phl-compute-01.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 04 Sep 2024 09:20:36 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.com; h= cc:content-type:content-type:date:date:from:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:reply-to:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm1; t=1725456036; x=1725542436; bh=ZbVv+KPeMIk9Thzd/XcYl0+nVehFi4Nv vLWTxrSIH24=; b=SmFJDmSKXx50afeSqE7XqHWTdHOQmPmwOtF3QzL8W3rBAddF uylwSP8Rhcd4CzW2jl4PI7bLWByzyy+bxvzXvhjzTVrTqjHo4qIv6OFYtCNDc8FF rwVL9+DsC/rP4F8PnGZ0Ilje/gTnsZlM85gUfvRhTmtAdkaU0rcDKwfmZ5f/lIVc 7W2pbyboPxnXzLkHazFslw9BIMFdgK7VxD3b2eQFFcqVgkoYRBnokIv8E6GSZ6IM cNa4EUyrJIg/YSALlSrL5WEcpgYD7LmUjQkAL2cUPuoR/Fg9RgUjh0qLLBncqaew dnyvkID9BUvKxzxnJBV1oUurI15RnVMeqIJSHQ==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:content-type:date:date :feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:reply-to:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; t= 1725456036; x=1725542436; bh=ZbVv+KPeMIk9Thzd/XcYl0+nVehFi4NvvLW TxrSIH24=; b=EsRZ2owDy3lsnrToLoXUM2gGurrNPFw8ZbUg8gWt44ObVVRqHP9 OOx/gcA06sM3kWD7s8kx6LhIOKk8rq/MB+lF0fpS3dSEaQeoojEzEnRBW6OKxD6N ifQ1/zZvWwwBiK+9Cbct62Vkdzv0XfG0bDUQlXodLxLZ22fpMKJ+IA+ic2Mp9Xl0 tOEd7Dpc8eX6DdiBNK1AxZwOYar8fYmUzkb1TWtXv1FlkJmS/CkH+DucNdgq3I3k ohdRbQDnfkcZ8Wd4ry83Eq9qJYnXbIFzV7XRsaNR0Wj4z0OUpJVxW6q/4WE9Lzw5 sXQcx+Bz2ORyYaxmJKOgGxlDcwXFwj6cquQ==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:pF7YZsnbl5gxRiJ-LjLVv3RwNGgmzJvrvKfU3FvPzZ1CewGJpgVvgA> <xme:pF7YZr1GYZsXTc3UP8v-R7N0QMmwpLqn-Pg-WL9DHqe-UUM7_9phAGpaH3inKIvCP LfvarGzjtsLAQ>
X-ME-Received: <xmr:pF7YZqpElaFVwPfzZ559dJ-xqfhxykWYafVyt34vgEwgXYEqiGpjpsvFdSP5IjdEVaw_BdJN7udH-j1ABlFiFBkbmNST0s5a_0T4DJA>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeeftddrudehjedgieefucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggvpdfu rfetoffkrfgpnffqhgenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpegtkfffgg gfvffhufhosegrtderredtvdejnecuhfhrohhmpefmvghnucfouhhrtghhihhsohhnuceo mhhurhgthhesfhgrshhtmhgrihhlrdgtohhmqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeeifeeile eggeekueffvdfhtedvkefgffekleduheetvdevfeefkeffkeffueetleenucevlhhushht vghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehmuhhrtghhsehfrghsth hmrghilhdrtghomhdpnhgspghrtghpthhtohepuddpmhhouggvpehsmhhtphhouhhtpdhr tghpthhtohepmhgrihhlmhgrihhnthesihgvthhfrdhorhhg
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:pF7YZolk2uWbEu4ekt4XQPVRDaVdDXJVeqsfj8FfW7UNxwrjXbm8Ew> <xmx:pF7YZq2o38yrz7PxuiZpkHkqyluYM16-a3Trd7459JuvLzl1jiVsZw> <xmx:pF7YZvvbKDP-CfV18av-ehNL6P9DWStbBaqEVAivob5jfDVh_5Ikww> <xmx:pF7YZmW9CmY4_N20KxRe5wtLoe3KdIhuySsbA3csnIJi1mZa7rmk7w> <xmx:pF7YZv8XvP_fBXBD0ag31CSS63w3ySnmY3dl_vzJ9qQJ0u51BNmuUpkp>
Feedback-ID: ibf914243:Fastmail
Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA for <mailmaint@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Sep 2024 09:20:35 -0400 (EDT)
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------vfq90gmDKiAFw01cdDbQHAb0"
Message-ID: <2a798303-7da0-4e02-858b-3ff355b8e2fa@fastmail.com>
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2024 09:20:35 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
To: mailmaint@ietf.org
Content-Language: en-US
From: Ken Murchison <murch@fastmail.com>
Organization: Fastmail US LLC
Message-ID-Hash: 262PKEKOOZH4Q2AFKXG6VLQKZKNCRHII
X-Message-ID-Hash: 262PKEKOOZH4Q2AFKXG6VLQKZKNCRHII
X-MailFrom: murch@fastmail.com
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc4
Precedence: list
Subject: [mailmaint] POLL: Expires issue #1: Require explicit recipient consent to delete messages
List-Id: Mail Maintenance <mailmaint.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mailmaint/At4lKY0XGdmoKTH592sw_fdrdd0>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/mailmaint>
List-Help: <mailto:mailmaint-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:mailmaint-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:mailmaint@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:mailmaint-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:mailmaint-leave@ietf.org>
All,
Most of the recent discussion on the topic has just been a back and
forth with no imminent resolution. So, I'm starting a new thread with a
poll in the hopes or reaching WG consensus and closing this issue.
I can surmise from the previous thread where some of you stand, but
please reply to this email with your preference by Sept 13. Yes, its a
Friday, but I'm not superstitious.
As I see it, we currently have 4 possible choices:
1. Keep the current text:
Automatic deletion of a message bearing an Expires field with a date
and time in the past is NOT RECOMMENDED unless configured by the
mailbox owner.
2. Change the text to use "SHOULD NOT delete unless configured by the
mailbox owner". I will note however that RFC 2119 treats "SHOULD
NOT" and "NOT RECOMMENDED" as equivalent.
3. Change the text to "MUST NOT delete unless configured by the mailbox
owner".
4. Some completely new normative/informative text. If this is your
choice, please provide suggested text.
Also, if your choice is 1-3, but would like to see additional text,
please suggest some.
--
Kenneth Murchison
Senior Software Developer
Fastmail US LLC
IETF MailMaint Chair
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Arnt Gulbrandsen
- [mailmaint] POLL: Expires issue #1: Require expli… Ken Murchison
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… John Levine
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Neil Jenkins
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Martin J. Dürst
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Keith Moore
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Murray S. Kucherawy
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Keith Moore
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Michael Peddemors
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Murray S. Kucherawy
- [mailmaint] Use cases for Expires Keith Moore
- [mailmaint] Re: Use cases for Expires Keith Moore
- [mailmaint] Re: Use cases for Expires Neil Jenkins
- [mailmaint] Re: Use cases for Expires Emil Gustafsson
- [mailmaint] Re: Use cases for Expires Keith Moore
- [mailmaint] Re: Use cases for Expires Emil Gustafsson
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Alessandro Vesely
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Keith Moore
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Murray S. Kucherawy
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Phillip Tao
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Keith Moore
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Murray S. Kucherawy
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Phillip Tao
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Keith Moore
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Phillip Tao
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Keith Moore
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Keith Moore
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Arnt Gulbrandsen
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Keith Moore
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Murray S. Kucherawy
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Phillip Tao
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Murray S. Kucherawy
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Phillip Tao
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Keith Moore
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Alessandro Vesely
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Keith Moore
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Arnt Gulbrandsen
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Jim Fenton
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Neil Jenkins
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Curtis King
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Keith Moore
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Taavi Eomäe
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… John Levine
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Curtis King
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Keith Moore
- [mailmaint] Re: POLL: Expires issue #1: Require e… Keith Moore