Re: [Manycouches] [Daniel Kahn Gillmor] [Tools-discuss] polls "show of hands": can we include a "i don't understand" or "not enough information" option
Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com> Thu, 19 November 2020 23:20 UTC
Return-Path: <martin.h.duke@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: manycouches@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: manycouches@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85F3B3A0E10 for <manycouches@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 19 Nov 2020 15:20:42 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.097
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w8Q65j8asijn for <manycouches@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 19 Nov 2020 15:20:40 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-io1-xd35.google.com (mail-io1-xd35.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0737B3A1370 for <manycouches@ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Nov 2020 15:20:38 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-io1-xd35.google.com with SMTP id j23so8001672iog.6; Thu, 19 Nov 2020 15:20:38 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Cm6bFrCihOqtDg8i1yU6oWn4cRUqa3BO19r9/eRWHT4=; b=Kj+3iWC7O7hZLh+dHA3N1qBJJD+ynUDj1RWGakyF/rWe5wt/iuY7WCxwnccnfxy3Xg XXfXaegSWAtbf7H8lbCjnY+H2COb4fKjXxgwhwFE5s9VbPnb8JvEmf0TTLljj8ckYz38 A4AStquRtlDqKEAc3kwg6vFIOpwokRfB8yrdEB6P/NLGifhPQQZ5Y96Avl2sv5DMTjeX 8EQ+GrMQeuYom7xn9tAOkIiuNg5eNpiZVvoBpZHiLTK13qHfpgtcGh8FQ3CZJSlpXUAk XKcnYsbvi40NJHTEuNg0npBPyIEyZR2SxYVC5gA02V981cYhI6q73rFIMk8D/JaG2UHF +pLA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Cm6bFrCihOqtDg8i1yU6oWn4cRUqa3BO19r9/eRWHT4=; b=HKD9cnqMNGDs5rVmmsckS2XZgOiCC6VHWnZoZD13TWnAiGvIaS/pRpdTnKuB62f9FL W3HykiFJ2y9A59yx2wgi0mvm0bg42pFDA0RuunEo2RPaVUO+0nAhR/9sRn+q0ZaMutk7 dVTiCpif4e7AcE2mLd7cmtXrlHL4z1NerOGNcNu/j2f3WlU+pwQ/ernX8tFRPnkQ5CQc 0Qq1QrxdTlOW1Zs/kMzpC+Jz1C7Xbb2ITK6v+UF4yEzibZdRKfn+Pasfvn4EdvdeDxJt aME2FHXG1r/MObYRcBXsqt4uNcDyBu+teHqj4Ut9oI9iNcyt4xKxOd+TxvRKDTjlCSf0 F2YQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533xum9Hwt2McGdbnh5FJfscqhu3zi0HqTkBpACPx2ERHW14hs6j NcaAr08ujbxVFGx764TKHT57m8+0CiqaRdFvILEHfFspTTpbvw==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJywpvZe7wHX2V1Ar8elvuVemeeJng6fzIEQfv6b8ABJbeB5O7+aXgQvyQAqkS3w6A7gCNnpZ/R6cmfgU/kLipY=
X-Received: by 2002:a5d:9a03:: with SMTP id s3mr9692556iol.20.1605828038036; Thu, 19 Nov 2020 15:20:38 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <87ima2bkgb.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> <87sg959sdg.fsf@fifthhorseman.net>
In-Reply-To: <87sg959sdg.fsf@fifthhorseman.net>
From: Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2020 15:20:39 -0800
Message-ID: <CAM4esxTD3yyVSnZ1FWGQVsf6rK7dDA9o0Ezv3D4D9rtLUZ9TTg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>, manycouches@ietf.org
Cc: shmoo@ietf.org, ietf@meetecho.com, Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c7124805b47df9cd"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/manycouches/PHfxaid58QJJ9r3T-5Uuy6sZVVU>
Subject: Re: [Manycouches] [Daniel Kahn Gillmor] [Tools-discuss] polls "show of hands": can we include a "i don't understand" or "not enough information" option
X-BeenThere: manycouches@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "List is a design team list to identify issues that would arise should an IETF meeting ever be held with O\(1000\) 'remote' participants." <manycouches.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/manycouches>, <mailto:manycouches-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/manycouches/>
List-Post: <mailto:manycouches@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:manycouches-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manycouches>, <mailto:manycouches-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2020 23:20:43 -0000
[adding manycouches, because cuz there's no shmoo@ list] Hi dkg, Thanks for the input! We consciously decided to implement a bare-bones version of this tool, to gather just this kind of feedback, before prioritizing enhancements. We (meaning the IESG committee handling remote meeting issues) will definitely consider this as a next step. I filed a tracking issue for this in the document github: https://github.com/martinduke/draft-duke-shmoo-virtual-hum/issues/3 Martin On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 2:57 PM Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net> wrote: > hi shmoo folks-- > > (not subscribed, please keep me in cc) > > I made the attached suggestion for augmenting the "show of hands" tool > over on tools-discuss, and Alessandro from Meetecho rightly re-pointed > me to this list for discussion of draft-duke-shmoo-show-of-hands. > > In the thread over on tools-discuss, ekr (in cc) raised a suggestion > (which i like) pushing for something like the "alternate architecture" > described in §4.1 of draft-duke-shmoo-show-of-hands-00. > > I suspect ekr's suggestion would be a heavier engineering lift than my > simple proposal here -- maybe it'd make sense to consider implementing > the simple thing first, and then flesh out the more complex approach? > > Thanks for thinking through this kind of information-gathering tool. > there are so many ways to do it, and each choice has a real impact on > the ways that we think about the decisions we're making in this group. > > --dkg > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net> > To: tools-discuss@ietf.org > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 13:15:16 -0500 > Subject: [Tools-discuss] polls "show of hands": can we include a "i don't > understand" or "not enough information" option > Currently, when there's a show of hands in meetecho, there are two > actions any participant can take: > > - raise my hand > - do not raise my hand > > in my experience, if a meeting has 100 participants, you're lucky to get > 50 that select either of the above options. At least half tend to give > no response at all. > > There are two reasons to give neither response though: > > - the question is confusing, invalid, wrong, i didn't understand it, or > i'm not sure of the answer > > - i am asleep/bored/not paying attention > > It'd be nice to be able to to distinguish between these two large > classes of non-responding participants. This is akin to including an > "N/A" or "Don't know" answer in a multiple choice survey. > > Could such a option be added? I don't want clutter with a dozen extra > options, but it would be useful to know how many people are paying > attention but object to the binary framing for whatever reason. > > --dkg > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > > Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org > bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb > or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org > > Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at > http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues > or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org >
- Re: [Manycouches] [Daniel Kahn Gillmor] [Tools-di… Martin Duke
- Re: [Manycouches] [Daniel Kahn Gillmor] [Tools-di… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Manycouches] [Daniel Kahn Gillmor] [Tools-di… Michael Richardson