Re: [Masque] MASQUE detection through tracking trackers

Töma Gavrichenkov <ximaera@gmail.com> Tue, 05 November 2019 21:22 UTC

Return-Path: <ximaera@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: masque@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: masque@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98B82120BFF for <masque@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 5 Nov 2019 13:22:55 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.998
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VSOXxHvIUVLi for <masque@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 5 Nov 2019 13:22:54 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-yb1-xb34.google.com (mail-yb1-xb34.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5FC46120B7E for <masque@ietf.org>; Tue, 5 Nov 2019 13:22:52 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-yb1-xb34.google.com with SMTP id w6so8447361ybj.5 for <masque@ietf.org>; Tue, 05 Nov 2019 13:22:52 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=WdzF6A6QpLUISMeR+A4DoB3kcl2lSJa8b2OmLEIm624=; b=qVdCNupyFZGfGlEwvtLI9tfx+ZYzxBsVIjvkXRnvpJKlURuLTakmWlWPRkI4Yo4V0C KRo5UTshKgM6B6AL2SeObLB9uFZCuvMukDor9hVv6CQiJBdU7rAN+Or/cPTW3Aj0/GXv 8p86vMvBS8Na4R+TNA9S21sK4hmD86hn7GuteMa5HXTgCHjlNfch6GpBvcrZPJmYHL+f a3ypO1TZ4pDAKtFiQUBbgih+pBgnje24whvAFnq1ERs2sYlhfGPJwQM4AddKsR01MZxr ttMIOpPrAfFNvJww+hoO82ePsNdoslS8wHed5S5pFtd+PRnbcFjCmEIGiywIapgtrWCr 05Qg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=WdzF6A6QpLUISMeR+A4DoB3kcl2lSJa8b2OmLEIm624=; b=oJi0zGoyfNX4ZA1Bp2i3BZSHkd18hsiVSh+/ePQlNibQQbXYZiQI9A0jexbrlAAglI 3CetH82lZYSEu9TpeL0whBwh3MV9D3rNXkxyn4as3EwvLZJfNlThpcHsq5MzgqKMFGai n4ca3vI4yHV6rv6MFdjRILPM0l6C3lzVwad3WkZ2LFSjfufYZIZap3pCq7SZPG8BMRDa R55z4c5vR1typZ9JPHbbOfLtkz8adYKzhJzDjMpXEQNkPI+J/zKJfHN/HNI6MGUTlCRc ttuG95HgSBcj+nqTrro5ZvBrCDjQFcBjCvIXIxLWTxXq3rdBvmPca7XqoG6I6rhDO5ej hcNQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVJLoJOxMTkReYDnNkWWoBabsZp2dlsS4yvsaJfTPa37cc76e6V eO8BqWRAyjPFkLA2Rm8Nf+a/5SXM24YlGahPjGQ=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwTIkecOzpZXnpJZtzZ9318JMJIwvFoVnUaansvDQeL5VsG2dnp20hlWIeKj7p1ZhK5cK2ghSmt0X7zq1YgE4I=
X-Received: by 2002:a25:b7c1:: with SMTP id u1mr29537918ybj.107.1572988971179; Tue, 05 Nov 2019 13:22:51 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CALZ3u+Yd3wu3G2o-AJErNw6SSgU97F-osJfJhYaiuu5Sb9sF6g@mail.gmail.com> <CA+9kkMAbwCTfMb8Z-meqjuuqSGqR+E9OOe8EF1QpeTwAQj4ktA@mail.gmail.com> <CALZ3u+Y6tPDPW3MFnUsPjtZGwgm3t0CBu+BCy=jH-ty3ra6Sng@mail.gmail.com> <CA+9kkMBt-dQxaDgxCh_S7LWiYNMc94tTUNFo0KHhH6fhc34nuw@mail.gmail.com> <CALZ3u+YNd4SCvoyt9=+vcBVvBw=Ty9R-GFDCR-Nu_rF1WMqiYw@mail.gmail.com> <CACdeXiLWJbCfKY7UP5wtkhe0RXksWF3ZdFxTycPrG1TUMS_7dg@mail.gmail.com> <CALZ3u+Yx+V_MhJA8XvWrFTtxu1ow2LAiDYby2Z88Z1mWVotvTQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAPDSy+6KmfqndiHkgybS_mwO8YufBFrcpAQXdJbDJT0ewZ9-sA@mail.gmail.com> <CAHbrMsCwRMhR8gWccNSM6bGYw4TEPXP7gouJOvSZ4k3bSQ0p5A@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAHbrMsCwRMhR8gWccNSM6bGYw4TEPXP7gouJOvSZ4k3bSQ0p5A@mail.gmail.com>
From: =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=B6ma_Gavrichenkov?= <ximaera@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2019 00:22:39 +0300
Message-ID: <CALZ3u+a69qt13cg3+R=zKUELO9niE3jF6O6Lh6jScvgjepN3ug@mail.gmail.com>
To: Ben Schwartz <bemasc@google.com>
Cc: David Schinazi <dschinazi.ietf@gmail.com>, Ted Hardie <ted.ietf@gmail.com>, Nick Harper <nharper@google.com>, masque@ietf.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000dce4640596a0088c"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/masque/OGwDOI_ebYHNTcMLCKLs8dsHWK8>
Subject: Re: [Masque] MASQUE detection through tracking trackers
X-BeenThere: masque@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multiplexed Application Substrate over QUIC Encryption <masque.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/masque>, <mailto:masque-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/masque/>
List-Post: <mailto:masque@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:masque-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/masque>, <mailto:masque-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2019 21:22:56 -0000

Peace,

On Wed, Nov 6, 2019, 12:08 AM Ben Schwartz <bemasc@google.com>; wrote:

> I think this topic is fascinating and important, but I support keeping it
> out of scope for MASQUE.  The countermeasures you've mentioned are, I
> think, largely separable from the MASQUE protocol, and MASQUE is a
> challenging enough problem already.
>

I strongly believe personally that MASQUE has to seriously consider this at
least in the security considerations section in order to succeed.

But, you're right, that might be a broader scope overall.  Secdispatch,
maybe, or even IRTF, though that might take so long that the solution will
finally be irrelevant.

--
Töma

>