Re: [Masque] MASQUE detection through tracking trackers

Nick Harper <nharper@google.com> Tue, 05 November 2019 19:32 UTC

Return-Path: <nharper@google.com>
X-Original-To: masque@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: masque@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37477120105 for <masque@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 5 Nov 2019 11:32:35 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -17.499
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xrwtjo71mhsO for <masque@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 5 Nov 2019 11:32:33 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-oi1-x22e.google.com (mail-oi1-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EEFEE12004A for <masque@ietf.org>; Tue, 5 Nov 2019 11:32:32 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-oi1-x22e.google.com with SMTP id n16so18660081oig.2 for <masque@ietf.org>; Tue, 05 Nov 2019 11:32:32 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ZUJs2QxbXdGs8+Jxg6hdcXf4A+j+W75Mvx+CEBADZb8=; b=gLYCOsgr749A2QuLnVAIulZ5CHcFPXGCZcMqbfuWd9lmMGQj26ex8vGfv96ysSMF8e tN1TNyyQ4io+LN1qtXToOaAniGaqiObRwSvNM7s3SVO7Xw23RBl+7sZmZLcJNMtxMkcU YwAKXvQ2vhXowohaSZxyQKlEO3L1DadRmFFC67moWsk67UUuWsSEJhDkXbF7iheNZ/sb FvgpwKihUN1scdnREbX/UYNOWY69Uy/InT1QgDUc4RRlhuvB4W9wlKL9gMUnxA869GGu SkC5bUxnOlJSLeY7HtdFvxIA0SfOna14fjJsR77CUidSZM9yVS56myOjMzXC+AHRRxIA Csiw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ZUJs2QxbXdGs8+Jxg6hdcXf4A+j+W75Mvx+CEBADZb8=; b=n4Gd/ZgLXZnlWiAZnQVGVMOJs5T7LjT9UUrjEURHsvYuLx1yOaZ9f3szotVlQ710a3 Qv8KxM0w9G731jiLGeVYxfoROK7GX+M2/CMk5UxWdor/D3R6s6j3WyNEJLJrv4dUlxy5 oi0cP2wAAxtFtWKlC3ypSX4XI4UXXzeVVentiLl1dktwN9CE1mHfTbEFbG4g9rdywLtS glakz7OWWOUWA1jneuR6qKn9Exv7SRnavNkyVo7x3XZ03rG9iUe7HV22PLBJu/5+iqFd E/vuQF0A5hSLKcxMN6CSYwusfZshia3qrC6dtKGzjx1HxLONiS8X9naKggKZQJsj49xT OkSw==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXQNcmHquGAcaRs1rvXFHsCsYbOiYQh9df987Yj/wcPWE8pDmP7 zAyyoYt6ikIZGlUsratar02zWlY9WShUyXTx8XfJlw==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyoZj/BWZEPZbQCdQs6OjbXyvMRuWmCV3PTJNEBDPapmSlgWiZoljImpj8V5qw1wqZxWn7zHOjz3TkSM3xWlP8=
X-Received: by 2002:aca:55c1:: with SMTP id j184mr559182oib.105.1572982351688; Tue, 05 Nov 2019 11:32:31 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CALZ3u+Yd3wu3G2o-AJErNw6SSgU97F-osJfJhYaiuu5Sb9sF6g@mail.gmail.com> <CA+9kkMAbwCTfMb8Z-meqjuuqSGqR+E9OOe8EF1QpeTwAQj4ktA@mail.gmail.com> <CALZ3u+Y6tPDPW3MFnUsPjtZGwgm3t0CBu+BCy=jH-ty3ra6Sng@mail.gmail.com> <CA+9kkMBt-dQxaDgxCh_S7LWiYNMc94tTUNFo0KHhH6fhc34nuw@mail.gmail.com> <CALZ3u+YNd4SCvoyt9=+vcBVvBw=Ty9R-GFDCR-Nu_rF1WMqiYw@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CALZ3u+YNd4SCvoyt9=+vcBVvBw=Ty9R-GFDCR-Nu_rF1WMqiYw@mail.gmail.com>
From: Nick Harper <nharper@google.com>
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2019 11:32:02 -0800
Message-ID: <CACdeXiLWJbCfKY7UP5wtkhe0RXksWF3ZdFxTycPrG1TUMS_7dg@mail.gmail.com>
To: =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=B6ma_Gavrichenkov?= <ximaera@gmail.com>
Cc: Ted Hardie <ted.ietf@gmail.com>, masque@ietf.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004fe3a405969e7e08"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/masque/XTlYkBEGNcuewidhGI4pDvU_Bfo>
Subject: Re: [Masque] MASQUE detection through tracking trackers
X-BeenThere: masque@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multiplexed Application Substrate over QUIC Encryption <masque.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/masque>, <mailto:masque-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/masque/>
List-Post: <mailto:masque@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:masque-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/masque>, <mailto:masque-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2019 19:32:35 -0000

On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 10:35 Töma Gavrichenkov <ximaera@gmail.com>; wrote:

> Peace,
>
> On Tue, Nov 5, 2019, 9:13 PM Ted Hardie <ted.ietf@gmail.com>; wrote:
>
>> Okay, so any system not configured to allow that just hard fails..
>> Understood.
>>
>
> Yup.  A typical phone or a laptop isn't..  IDK how the IoT is being
> processed, but I assume that's a pretty simple heuristics.
>

Depending on the domain, a typical laptop or phone is configured to hard
fail: TLS errors on domains that use HSTS (whether preloaded or sent via an
HTTP header) are non bypassable.

>
>
>
>> The regulations require that when "data is collected, data subjects must
>> be clearly informed <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privacy_policy> about
>> the extent of data collection, the legal basis for processing of personal
>> data, how long data is retained, if data is being transferred to a
>> third-party and/or outside the EU, and any automated decision-making that
>> is made on a solely algorithmic <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algorithm>
>> basis." (from Wikipedia's summary)
>>
>
> IANAL, but the entity doesn't collect the data itself, so might be outta
> scope of GDPR.
>
> BTW, GDPR doesn't only work in EU, it works in every place on Earth where
> an EU citizen could land.
>
>
>
>> Interesting that it is mostly EU customers.
>>
>
> Argh!  My bad, that was an occasional ambiguity due to phone keyboard
> suggestions.  No, the customers are outSIDE of EU.  Most of them, I assume.
>
>
>
>>> Agreed; I cited it only to point out that it is currently out of scope.
>> Traffic analysis that includes non-QUIC traffic would be particularly hard
>> to address in the document anyway.
>>
>
> Too bad.  A dumb traffic analysis might be out of scope, but a complex
> traffic analysis might render VPN research senseless.  Who needs a
> perfectly secure communication protocol which could be easily detected and
> blocked..
>
> --
> Töma
>
>> --
> Masque mailing list
> Masque@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/masque
>