Re: [MBONED] mboned notes ietf 118 (fwd)

[stefán atli jónasson <[e-mail]>]

I just need the mapp

Þann 9. nóvember 2023 19:14:00 GMT+00:00, skrifaði Leonard Giuliano <lenny=[e-mail]>:
>
>Also, forgot to thank Stig for taking these notes.  Lots of discussion and 
>back-and-forth, so we greatly appreciate these notes under such 
>challenging conditions.
>
>
>On Thu, 9 Nov 2023, Leonard Giuliano wrote:
>
>| 
>| MBONEDers- here are the notes from today's mtg.  Please take a look and add
>| any fixes you might see now that it's fresh on the mind.  You can send edits
>| to the chairs, or just edit directly at:
>| 
>| https://notes.ietf.org/s/notes-ietf-118-mboned#
>| 
>| *****
>| 
>| Notes from mboned
>| 
>| Multicast telemetry doc passed wglc since 117
>| Looking for shepherd.
>| -Max volunteered to shepherd
>| 
>| YANG model draft. Sandy says received some comments from Tom and will update.
>| Sandy says redundant ingress failover doc should be ready for wglc
>| AMT yang model draft needs more review and comments.
>| 
>| Updates on MTTB drafts from Max. Dorms may be ready for wglc.
>| 
>| Multicast Extensions for QUIC
>| Dino asking how it is working with keys.
>| Asking if retransmit as uc or mc if many clients don't act. Basic idea is that
>| draft doesn't specify how to retransmit. Saying how unicast might be better if
>| multicast failures.
>| Toerless asking if thought about NAT
>| Not sure if I got that right.
>| Someone (one of the authors?) saying that can kick client off multicast if too
>| many failures.
>| A comment that many options how to do acks, may not need to ack every packet.
>| Mathias asking if this is just SSM. It seems that way.
>| Someone (think an author) saying this is harder for ASM with many sources.
>| 
>| Ice asking if routers do QUIC, I think.
>| Someone clarifying that lost packets are not retransmitted, but rather data is
>| retransmitted.
>| 
>| Dino asking for more details on integrity.
>| Integrity frames are sent over unicast. Contains checksums of packets. Used to
>| verify multicast packets.
>| 
>| Lucas Pardue Explaining about other approaches for integrity.
>| 
>| Francois Michel
>| Commenting on many to many, didn't get it, but presenter says out of scope for
>| now.
>| 
>| Juliusz
>| Asking about what crypto to use. Presenter says he can't recommend a specific
>| one.
>| 
>| Lenny
>| Cautions about adding complexity to address ASM. May make it harder to deploy.
>| Interdomain ASM was deprecated for a reason, recommend keeping scope at
>| SSM-only.
>| 
>| Dino
>| Asking if DH on multicast channels, rather than publishing shared key.
>| Juliusz mentions that 2 layers, encryption and authentication.
>| 
>| Toerless
>| Make it slow enough for the slowest guy?
>| Presenter says can be different channels with different rates.
>| Rely on clients joining slower channels if rate is too high for them.
>| Suggesting can keep it simple and just throw slowest guy out if needed.
>| Presenter says draft not specifying whether 1 or multiple channels. Not
>| specified.
>| Toerless says a draft on multi channel behavior may be needed.
>| 
>| Francois Michel
>| Missed comment.
>| 
>| Juliusz
>| Asking if can do FEC for unreliable data. Says can work well.
>| Presenter says easy to do.
>| 
>| Gorry
>| Says congestion control in QUIC is very terse.
>| 
>| Hitoshi asking about use of different FEC for different clients I think. Seems
>| not something they thought about.
>| 
>| Dino asking about cost of signatures. Whether to do it over just a few bytes
>| or not. Maybe it can be cheap.
>| 
>| Lucas talking about how use cases are important.
>| 
>| Gorry Says a separate draft on congestion control could be useful to get help
>| from CC experts. Says vital to get it right.
>| Greg asking if CC would be in QUIC itself or applications using it.
>| Historically for multicast it's been in the application.
>| Gorry not sure right now.
>| Toerless, there is a CC WG.
>| 
>| 
>| Scalability analysis comparison of multicast/BIER forwarding mechanisms
>| (https://atlas.cs.uni-tuebingen.de/*menth/papers/Menth21-Sub-5.pdf)
>| Michael Menth, 20 min
>| 
>| Juliusz
>| Made some comment on worst case, I missed it.
>| 
>| Greg
>| Does not agree what presenter said about bier being bad for small groups. It
>| may not generally be true.
>| It depends on whether receivers are in the same bitset.
>| 
>| Dino
>| Asking why multiple sets if few members. Greg is explaining.
>| 
>| No more questions.
>| 
>| TreeDN update by Lenny
>| WGLC soon in mops wg
>| input from MBONED and PIM would be welcome
>| 
>| 
>| 
>| 
>| 
>| 
>| 
>| 
>| 
>| 
>| 
>| 
>
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