Re: [mif] Use case 42 [Re: Use cases for draft-ietf-mif-dhcpv6-route-option needed]

Ted Lemon <Ted.Lemon@nominum.com> Fri, 18 November 2011 02:21 UTC

Return-Path: <Ted.Lemon@nominum.com>
X-Original-To: mif@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: mif@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29A9811E80BA for <mif@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:21:23 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -106.569
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.569 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.030, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5b-ZcDAVFGoj for <mif@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:21:22 -0800 (PST)
Received: from exprod7og126.obsmtp.com (exprod7og126.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.206]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 474A911E80B5 for <mif@ietf.org>; Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:21:22 -0800 (PST)
Received: from shell-too.nominum.com ([64.89.228.229]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob126.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKTsXBIak6mOyn8Qkw/9mqmrj4Q8oAOJKk@postini.com; Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:21:22 PST
Received: from archivist.nominum.com (archivist.nominum.com [64.89.228.108]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by shell-too.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 521711B82AD for <mif@ietf.org>; Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:21:21 -0800 (PST)
Received: from webmail.nominum.com (cas-01.win.nominum.com [64.89.228.131]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mail.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by archivist.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D2A819005D; Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:21:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Ted.Lemon@nominum.com)
Received: from MBX-01.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([64.89.228.133]) by CAS-01.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([64.89.228.131]) with mapi id 14.01.0339.001; Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:21:21 -0800
From: Ted Lemon <Ted.Lemon@nominum.com>
To: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: Use case 42 [Re: [mif] Use cases for draft-ietf-mif-dhcpv6-route-option needed]
Thread-Index: AQHMpZLTS1PZbX9WuEWWXuh7s0xwpZWx5l4N
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 02:21:20 +0000
Message-ID: <83A7D27A-9036-4252-AC94-3A89125C961B@nominum.com>
References: <282BBE8A501E1F4DA9C775F964BB21FE3EB78C3C98@GRFMBX704BA020.griffon.local> <916CE6CF87173740BC8A2CE44309696204193417@008-AM1MPN1-053.mgdnok.nokia.com>, <4EC512A2.2060509@gmail.com> <890A58CF-8EAD-4F92-9981-9B5AA07EBF00@nominum.com>, <4EC5B720.8020605@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <4EC5B720.8020605@gmail.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
Cc: "mif@ietf.org" <mif@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mif] Use case 42 [Re: Use cases for draft-ietf-mif-dhcpv6-route-option needed]
X-BeenThere: mif@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multiple Interface Discussion List <mif.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/mif>, <mailto:mif-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/mif>
List-Post: <mailto:mif@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:mif-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mif>, <mailto:mif-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 02:21:23 -0000

On Nov 18, 2011, at 9:38 AM, "Brian E Carpenter" <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote:
> Operators say that they want (approximate) feature parity so
> that they can have (approximate) alignment between their
> operational procedures for v4 and v6, especially in a dual stack
> network. I assert that this is a very good engineering reason,
> and it isn't for the IETF to get on its high horse and say that
> experienced operators don't know how to manage OPEX.

This is the exact use case Tomek cited, and is (some of us think) adequately satisfied by a vendor-specific route option in the BBF and/or 3GPP vendor option spaces.   John was pretty sure that there was no demand for this from Cablelabs, although I'd certainly be interested in hearing other opinions on this question.

The question is whether there is some use case that justifies a general-purpose DHCPv6 option that would wind up being widely deployed and likely used *instead* of RA in some network to which arbitrary nodes might need to connect.

> I don't know whether my final comment belongs on this thread or
> the drawbacks thread, but it's clear that a strong constraint on
> any DHCPv6 option that overlaps in functionality with RA is that
> it must convey exactly the same semantics or a proper superset
> of the same semantics. If we do that, DHCPv6 will not undercut
> RA and a special algorithm for RA vs DHCPv6 conflict resolution
> will not be needed.

It's difficult to see how we could ensure that this was true, since the DHCPv6 server and router might actually be operated by independent entities with no coordination.