Re: [dhcwg] RE: [Mip6] [Updated] DHCP Option forHomeInformationDiscovery inMIPv6

[Vijay Devarapalli <[e-mail]>]

Julien Bournelle wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> On Wed, Jul 05, 2006 at 05:58:42PM -0700, Vijay Devarapalli wrote:
>> Alper,
>>
>> we don't define architectures in the IETF. 
>> draft-ietf-mip6-bootstrapping-integrated-dhc is supposed to be the only 
>> bootstrapping *solution* for the integrated scenario. thats the reason 
>> it is currently a WG document and draft-jang isnt.
> 
>  I'm not sure that the intent was to be the only bootstrapping solution
>  for the integrated scenario. We have added the suffix -dhc to specify
>  that the delivery of HA information to the MN was based on DHCP but
>  others solutions may be possible (cf.
>  draft-bournelle-pana-mip6-01.txt).

hmm... we discussed a bunch of options (including PANA)
for the integrated scenario and concluded on DHCP. so
in that sense, we are standardizing only one solution
(based on DHCP) for the integrated scenario. a solution
based on PANA is possible if there is a need for it.

Vijay

> 
>  My 2 cents,
> 
>  Julien
> 
>> lets continue this discussion at the IETF meeting. an offline meeting 
>> with the working group chairs before the MIP6 WG meeting would help, I 
>> think.
>>
>> Vijay
>>
>> Alper Yegin wrote:
>>>> there is one issue.
>>>>
>>>> draft-jang just does not define the DHCP options. it goes further.
>>>> abstract of draft-jang says
>>>>
>>>>    This draft defines a DHCP-based scheme to enable dynamic discovery of
>>>>    Mobile IPv6 home agent address, home address, and home subnet.  New
>>>>    DHCP options are defined to carry the information from a DHCP server
>>>>    to the DHCP client running on the mobile node.
>>> What is "further" in this? The words "dynamic discovery?" This is what DHCP
>>> gives you for anything that you use it for.
>>>
>>>
>>>> section 4.2 further goes and ahead and specifies mobile node
>>>> behavior. the draft just does not define the options. 
>>> These are all within the scope of defining a new DHCP option.
>>>
>>>> it is also
>>>> incomplete because it neither describes the scope of the problem
>>> This is all defined in the Introduction section. If you have specific
>>> comments, let us know and we'll fix it up.
>>>
>>>> it is trying to address nor gives a complete solution.
>>> Complete solution, I suspect, is the architecture you are referring to.
>>> Again, this is a "protocol" document, not an "architecture" document.
>>>
>>>> we can't have two documents that both describe how to use DHCP
>>>> for MIP6 bootstrapping.
>>> That's not happening. draft-jang-mip6-hiopt-00 defines a protocol
>>> specification. draft-ietf-mip6-bootstrapping-integrated-dhc-01 defines the
>>> architecture and refers to the former for the specific protocol details.
>>>
>> >From your other e-mail:
>>>>> If the use cases are not limited to only bootstrapping,
>>>> what other use cases? are those use cases specific to Mobile IPv6?
>>>> do they fit into the MIP6 WG charter?
>>> I had explained the use of statically configured DHCP servers earlier,
>>> remember?
>>>
>>> ....
>>>
>>> Vijay, we have circled around your concerns many times by now. I'm going to
>>> stop now and see you in Montreal.
>>>
>>> Alper
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Vijay
>>>>
>>>> Kent Leung (kleung) wrote:
>>>>> Hi Kuntal and Vijay.
>>>>>
>>>>> See my posting, "Generalizing draft-jang-dhc-haopt for MIPv6 support in
>>>>> DHCP", back on Jan 4, 2006 on this topic.  I proposed to keep the 2
>>>>> drafts separate, one for defining DHCPv6 opcodes for MIPv6 parameters
>>>>> and a bootstrap draft that references the DHCP options needed to achieve
>>>>> its function.
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree there's no need to drag in references other to say that there's
>>>>> value for the DHCP MIPv6 options.  3GPP2/WiMAX specs can reference the
>>>>> DHCPv6 opcodes for MIPv6 draft/RFC, much like what MIPv6 bootstrap would
>>>>> have done.
>>>>>
>>>>> As for what Vijay said about the WiMAX scheme, definitely true that it
>>>>> doesn't conform to DHCP RFC 3315.  But we should keep the issues
>>>>> separate.  I haven't read all the emails on the thread.  Just jumping in
>>>>> to say the following:
>>>>>
>>>>> - Keep 2 separate self contained drafts
>>>>> - IETF MIPv6 bootstrap draft references DHCP for MIPv6 draft
>>>>> - WiMAX and 3GPP2 can also reference DHCP for MIPv6 draft for their
>>>>> bootstrapping schemes
>>>>>
>>>>> Just some explanatory comments:
>>>>> - 3GPP2 conforms to DHCPv6 in its bootstrapping scheme
>>>>> - WiMAX does not conform to DHCPv6 when using proxy DHCP server scheme
>>>>>
>>>>> But *ALL* of the above bootstrapping schemes use the same DHCP options
>>>>> for MIPv6 parameters.  That's what justifies an independent DHCP for
>>>>> MIPv6 draft, IMHO.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kent
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Chowdhury, Kuntal [mailto:[e-mail]]
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 7:19 PM
>>>>>> To: Vijay Devarapalli; Behcet Sarikaya
>>>>>> Cc: [e-mail]; Heejin Jang; [e-mail]
>>>>>> Subject: RE: [dhcwg] RE: [Mip6] [Updated] DHCP Option for
>>>>>> HomeInformationDiscovery inMIPv6
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry, I am not getting this. Why are we dragging WiMAX and
>>>>>> 3GPP2 references to justify the need for basic DHCP op-codes
>>>>>> for HoA/HL/HA info?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> draft-jang-mip6-hiopt-00.txt defines the DHCPv6 op-codes for
>>>>>> HA, HoA and HL info.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> draft-ietf-mip6-bootstrapping-integrated-dhc-01.txt is the
>>>>>> MIP6 bootstrapping solution that leverages DHCPv6 for HA/HL
>>>>>> bootstrapping.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are tons of I-Ds and solutions in IETF that leverage other I-Ds.
>>>>>> So, what is so special here? The decision to NOT merge these
>>>>>> I-Ds was taken in the bootstrap DT. Why are we wasting
>>>>>> people's time here to revisit basic decisions?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Kuntal
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Vijay Devarapalli [mailto:[e-mail]]
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 12:55 PM
>>>>>>> To: Behcet Sarikaya
>>>>>>> Cc: [e-mail]; Heejin Jang; [e-mail]
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RE: [Mip6] [Updated] DHCP Option for Home
>>>>>>> InformationDiscovery inMIPv6
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Behcet Sarikaya wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Vijay,
>>>>>>>> The idea in the present WiMAX document is quite simple:
>>>>>>>> it uses EAP-PKMv2 (which is like 802.11i) authentication
>>>>>> and during
>>>>>> EAP
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> transaction, they assume that AAA server determines that
>>>>>> the MS is a
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> CMIPv6 authorized user based on the AAA profile and it
>>>>>> will include
>>>>>> all
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the so-called bootstrapping info in the Access-Accept. Then MS can
>>>>>> use
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> RFC 3736 to make a DHCP Information Request to DHCP Relay
>>>>>> colocated
>>>>>> with
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> NAS and use draft-jang (extended now with HoA) and receive all the
>>>>>> info
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to configure MIP6.
>>>>>>> the DHCP Relay replies to the MN without relaying the DHCP request
>>>>>> >from the MN to a DHCP server? this is not allowed with the current
>>>>>>> IETF specs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In this setup can you make a case for
>>>>>>>> draft-ietf-mip6-bootstrapping-integrated-dhc-01.txt?
>>>>>>> as far as I am concerned,
>>>>>>> draft-ietf-mip6-bootstrapping-integrated-dhc-01.txt
>>>>>>> is the document that describes how to use DHCPv6 for MIPv6
>>>>>>> bootstrapping. as for the setup in the WiMAX NWG, it is
>>>>>> something that
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> doesn't conform to the IETF DHCP specs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Vijay
>>>>>>> <snip>
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