Re: [MLS] New Version Notification for draft-knodel-e2ee-definition-01.txt
Mallory Knodel <mknodel@cdt.org> Mon, 10 May 2021 16:30 UTC
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To: Raphael Robert <ietf@raphaelrobert.com>
Cc: Messaging Layer Security WG <mls@ietf.org>
References: <162039893366.31953.3182470506238059389@ietfa.amsl.com> <818a638a-a687-5fb2-0f93-9654f4a1d9e9@cdt.org> <F7A54CCF-D3C1-48C7-8AC6-9E865029A61D@raphaelrobert.com>
From: Mallory Knodel <mknodel@cdt.org>
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Subject: Re: [MLS] New Version Notification for draft-knodel-e2ee-definition-01.txt
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Thanks Raphael, those are all excellent suggestions. I think Gurshabad and I have a grip on their essence, so will make an attempt at -02 for the second points and I'll re-review draft-architecture with your first question in mind. Perhaps at the next MLS meeting we can as a group spend some time together to think about scope wrt other wg drafts. -Mallory On 5/7/21 5:06 PM, Raphael Robert wrote: > Thanks for sharing Mallory! > > I like that it has a wholistic approach and that it is based on prior > research. > I need to think a bit more about it in general, what comes to mind > right now in no particular order: > > - What are the possible synergies between your draft and the MLS > architecture draft > (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mls-architecture-06)? > - Topics that could possibly be expanded: authentication, metadata > (e.g. persisted metadata vs. observable metadata) > - End user expectations: As mentioned for Alec’s draft as well, I > think end user expectations are the center piece. Bridging the gap > between academic definitions and the UX of secure messengers would > provide some real value in my mind. > > In essence, it’s great to have this draft and it is relevant for MLS > in my mind. Thanks again for sharing! > > Raphael > >> On 7. May 2021, at 16:59, Mallory Knodel <mknodel@cdt.org> wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> There's been oblique discussion of this draft, thanks to Alec's >> citation in his recent effort. >> >> My co-authors and I thought we should go ahead and share a -01 >> version with the group. Most of our feedback so far has been around >> better definition of an end, so we broke that into its own sub-section. >> >> The goal is to clearly define e2ee in three different ways: >> constituent formal definition, functionalities, and user >> expectations. This assumes a technology is defined by its properties. >> Conversely, we are not trying to define properties by the technology >> in use, eg "this app is secure because it's e2ee", which is totally >> valid. But without our effort, it's becomes circular. >> >> Lastly I'll just mention that while we aim to define e2ee, we also >> end up defining a few other terms as well. It's perhaps worth >> considering this a terminology draft for the mls working group, as >> Raphael just suggested. We are certainly open to that, so please help >> us by opening issues or sending pull requests to help solidify those >> terms: https://github.com/mallory/e2ee/edit/main/draft-e2ee.md. >> >> Any and all reviews welcome, >> >> -Mallory >> >> >> >> -------- Forwarded Message -------- >> Subject: New Version Notification for >> draft-knodel-e2ee-definition-01.txt >> Date: Fri, 07 May 2021 07:48:53 -0700 >> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org >> To: Sofía Celi <cherenkov@riseup.net>, Fred Baker >> <fredbaker.IETF@gmail.com>, Fred Baker <fredbaker.ietf@gmail.com>, >> Gurshabad Grover <gurshabad@cis-india.org>, Mallory Knodel >> <mknodel@cdt.org>, Olaf Kolkman <kolkman@isoc.org>, Sofia Celi >> <cherenkov@riseup.net> >> >> >> >> >> A new version of I-D, draft-knodel-e2ee-definition-01.txt >> has been successfully submitted by Mallory Knodel and posted to the >> IETF repository. >> >> Name: draft-knodel-e2ee-definition >> Revision: 01 >> Title: Definition of End-to-end Encryption >> Document date: 2021-05-07 >> Group: Individual Submission >> Pages: 12 >> URL: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-knodel-e2ee-definition-01.txt >> Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-knodel-e2ee-definition/ >> Htmlized: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-knodel-e2ee-definition >> Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-knodel-e2ee-definition-01 >> Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-knodel-e2ee-definition-01 >> >> Abstract: >> End-to-end encryption (E2EE) is an application of cryptography in >> communications systems between endpoints. E2EE systems are unique in >> providing features of confidentiality, integrity and authenticity for >> users. Improvements to E2EE strive to maximise the system's security >> while balancing usability and availability. Users of E2EE >> communications expect trustworthy providers of secure implementations >> to respect and protect their right to whisper. >> >> >> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >> submission >> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org >> <http://tools.ietf.org>. >> >> The IETF Secretariat >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> MLS mailing list >> MLS@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mls > -- Mallory Knodel CTO, Center for Democracy and Technology gpg fingerprint :: E3EB 63E0 65A3 B240 BCD9 B071 0C32 A271 BD3C C780
- [MLS] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-kno… Mallory Knodel
- Re: [MLS] New Version Notification for draft-knod… Raphael Robert
- Re: [MLS] New Version Notification for draft-knod… Mallory Knodel
- Re: [MLS] New Version Notification for draft-knod… Raphael Robert