Re: [MLS] Recommendation for encrypted group operations

[Brendan McMillion <[e-mail]>]

>
> Groups can be extremely large: there are telegram channels of tens of
> thousands of people. The credentials in cross-domain environments can
> rapidly swell. At the same time spam can be an issue, and having
> server visibility into group joining I think can be a very useful clue
> here.


MMS has a max group size of 10, iMessage of 32, Messenger of 250, Signal of
1000, WhatsApp of 1024. At these sizes, it does seriously warrant
considering whether the efficiency arguments hold water. Spam concerns
don't really resonate with me either, as Signal (the only major messenger
to use Sealed Sender) seems to have no issue with it. Given that these are
consumer apps, they also don't have the enterprise policy-enforcement
constraints Richard described.

I understand why the efficiency arguments apply to something like WebEx or
Zoom, where several thousand people may pop in and out of a meeting in an
hour. But like I said, that's a very specific type of app in the space

Unfortunately I do not.  Honestly, I think the need was so obvious to folks
> involved, who are working on real messaging systems, that there wasn't much
> discussion.  Even the privacy-focused folks who had designed a very
> privacy-preserving DS [draft-robert-mimi-delivery-service] have come to
> agree that PublicMessage is the right answer as the default.


I am curious how we got from "has already been discussed pretty
extensively" to "so obvious... that there wasn't much discussion." :)

On Tue, Jan 30, 2024 at 1:22 PM Richard Barnes <[e-mail]> wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 30, 2024 at 11:15 AM Watson Ladd <[e-mail]>
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Jan 30, 2024 at 1:11 PM Brendan McMillion
>>
>> > I personally have not followed the mimi wg very closely and I can not
>> say why they made this decision.
>>
>> Even as someone subscribed I'm not sure I'm aware of this particular
>> conversation. Anyone got handly links?
>>
>
> I knew someone was going to ask :)
>
> Unfortunately I do not.  Honestly, I think the need was so obvious to
> folks involved, who are working on real messaging systems, that there
> wasn't much discussion.  Even the privacy-focused folks who had designed a
> very privacy-preserving DS [draft-robert-mimi-delivery-service] have come
> to agree that PublicMessage is the right answer as the default.
>
> --RLB
>
>