IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [MMUSIC] Martin Duke's Discuss on draft-ietf-mmusic-t140-usage-data-channel-12: the COMMENT

Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> Mon, 06 April 2020 08:06 UTC

Return-Path: <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
X-Original-To: mmusic@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: mmusic@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 602B53A0A69; Mon, 6 Apr 2020 01:06:08 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.268
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.268 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.168, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n9O1sC6AEdXU; Mon, 6 Apr 2020 01:05:54 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from EUR01-DB5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr150041.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.15.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 424B43A0AB5; Mon, 6 Apr 2020 00:57:11 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=dFTGfkmJUKJSmqi7siVGksP/v71+ryMGO26rDU+tuwrMP8H4TuXygmqzZeAwWRtnHXpoarIJdf+q4BroexwmtMEeIBRA1BzgTas/FevoAWdDXAzlcTfwRhLO0HNLG0m067JzC2D/5XaHVTapCzb0Ng5sGsgWvAHUa+dU5z/sNuFjIa0rWn6APCdPsdVuEbuVAxbP/aN2te8NfgWHRLH8kD8QQ+v4+VpjGS51sCnnqMIdCQwkx5qZBWJzdeeMcyyzvDPS5NaCJn9KfUzASmsxriFZUaEP06NATHj5P9ImNPXYA5dUbt4R7rCgcaHndwChsAuNqRMlTU7lMXnYSCYx5w==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=37X6VWW8hVfRx7WTCLAjZk2pkMXbBqkacNw9AC9RciY=; b=kgcaoTdsRJyrl1SsW4N44RK82vmgwRDs6qr0YHDxEAz+/WXFt1P0Z/TpxDyJNWyOfqvzb/pKbQ7VVa4hiXQJfyq7Ex5YrTe3Jbf6X+fujq0AZMKSv/Jy/5DAa6sJBTVkh/Mi5C1ZhSs4V36Op2oYeQqiJqFRv1dVLUyHJQ94HAXUd9tVryD9CFVBD7CKznLyP061VpebB+5akpsdVuOCcFzaltV56tSKuUz6n/qIprIHeTDSJ1ELIzweE6HBmgYdwY/5gZ4QiKOwc8RYc9KqJxohl/mhRnfOq4e9TGs1nVuklAqxjf41kPfF4pJNMH/vKY/8qALyD5oitBn3ycOj+Q==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=ericsson.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=ericsson.com; dkim=pass header.d=ericsson.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericsson.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=37X6VWW8hVfRx7WTCLAjZk2pkMXbBqkacNw9AC9RciY=; b=jMoqr67BgaGLNnU02cmjNTnCal1hDizvk6zF9kZupT9N0t0ekjtJbYJ7qq9ksMViYFFDmnoNMNZ4k0J25y07ANd1zLfBLFPBVE3dF/8JKWV7qdnx0clgs4i9UOPRILhp3/LGk0M1zFteVox6K34fUGNMmG5gKR4elta1dFkQdSs=
Received: from AM0PR07MB3987.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (52.134.82.159) by AM0PR07MB5121.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (20.178.19.26) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2900.13; Mon, 6 Apr 2020 07:57:07 +0000
Received: from AM0PR07MB3987.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::57b:b81e:33ec:5512]) by AM0PR07MB3987.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::57b:b81e:33ec:5512%7]) with mapi id 15.20.2900.012; Mon, 6 Apr 2020 07:57:06 +0000
From: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
To: Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com>
CC: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-mmusic-t140-usage-data-channel@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-mmusic-t140-usage-data-channel@ietf.org>, "mmusic-chairs@ietf.org" <mmusic-chairs@ietf.org>, "mmusic@ietf.org" <mmusic@ietf.org>, Flemming Andreasen <fandreas@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: Martin Duke's Discuss on draft-ietf-mmusic-t140-usage-data-channel-12: the COMMENT
Thread-Index: AQHWC3wYFF+yrY5fi0u0PtH2jIZadqhrNCIAgAC5HYA=
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2020 07:57:06 +0000
Message-ID: <E12799F0-2055-47C4-BA05-B372B6DE5FD5@ericsson.com>
References: <A39BFD6F-64F7-4E23-8FC6-BC8C7B6F8C8F@ericsson.com> <CAM4esxQ-6Z2yWA=bdyKjO=yjyJG08htm-bGRozyw5C1DjhTObQ@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAM4esxQ-6Z2yWA=bdyKjO=yjyJG08htm-bGRozyw5C1DjhTObQ@mail.gmail.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-GB
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.1e.0.191013
authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=christer.holmberg@ericsson.com;
x-originating-ip: [188.127.223.154]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: bad6000f-fef2-46a8-1480-08d7da0019fa
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM0PR07MB5121:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <AM0PR07MB5121548B9D39EB9C4290706693C20@AM0PR07MB5121.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508;
x-forefront-prvs: 0365C0E14B
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:AM0PR07MB3987.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:(10009020)(4636009)(376002)(396003)(39860400002)(346002)(366004)(136003)(6512007)(6916009)(33656002)(44832011)(66476007)(64756008)(66556008)(54906003)(76116006)(2616005)(91956017)(71200400001)(316002)(66446008)(2906002)(66946007)(6486002)(4326008)(186003)(8936002)(81156014)(81166006)(8676002)(26005)(6506007)(53546011)(5660300002)(86362001)(36756003)(478600001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101;
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ericsson.com does not designate permitted sender hosts)
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: ujOAV2ZJSIVS+tEV94S+RfevHqlHBloydR2aPP6SpfK7KBSfoN3sphe9fml2keGZmSu6i2QSa20ttBLKsHJ/hQcn7uPIpAMhJ52BVHBhQBi7vKrYQL9im4wo6KD1Kgu8MwuyKyTm/QcknYJvcUhp3/UqsI8s8lOS74S8ZXlYP++oorikQi1Spo7Jr9nKD5HV8/0c4PLLa0U8ldRacWOuJ4FKFhkTFPv0n+ohrFAOYp1g6ebjdRpEGr6W5rvk3T8dULnxEFyMYgZEhQpI4fKG/jDbBSZYImiLYbwgZT+tw7/7ND8Y7fFiEb/IKhl6t+tmSLW9hxiHsqAY2oUiJ2R6QbbHnS3IG7TyY4+HeqCJKz46jf6yQanTSAY3Lz5M+hXjED1ufZZCETfq8cs0h3knOIOpvAR3z73RhVQheI5dzKOoNtTO54Gsa3Bi6tHkfHbU
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: Zar26KDHogyO+rFtKDlI1m0zParvuoWCTNUaB3neggAXYE1YJ6oa+OlUZfV+m/EZLRu53LStmZCLzxe+DI5zVrkCNPzjNyiCwkJOyMDsLltERRWY8OMUcpApC3MtTkc6EkrQFNDLDcPY8EG8w73Udw==
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-ID: <B26A54E7528E274E98ADB377DC855BBF@eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: bad6000f-fef2-46a8-1480-08d7da0019fa
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 06 Apr 2020 07:57:06.5380 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: bRzE+gtxyzGCDT/berikGZJB47E1M0PPmhbhvWd7Qx776RkwhrxayiDGOZ62rXKqN1qNaMd4Cng9dCpHbNSEUPlj0Q6HwpVlCDuIog0I+5k=
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM0PR07MB5121
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mmusic/CsIE-1qoMVB_dNyVSxTyolQfwj4>
Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] Martin Duke's Discuss on draft-ietf-mmusic-t140-usage-data-channel-12: the COMMENT
X-BeenThere: mmusic@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multiparty Multimedia Session Control Working Group <mmusic.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/mmusic>, <mailto:mmusic-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/mmusic/>
List-Post: <mailto:mmusic@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:mmusic-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic>, <mailto:mmusic-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2020 08:06:15 -0000

Hi,

> In Section 5.4, the endpoint "MUST NOT retransmit T140blocks" and "MUST NOT insert missing text markers" unless "it has strong
> indications that a T140block has been lost." The criterion is vague so I'm not sure how the MUST is enforceable. I don't have an alternate
> proposal so I'll just ask if there's a way to be more specific about 'strong indications.'

Unfortunately there isn't, as there is no T.140 level acknowledgement of what has been delivered to the peer in the case of network failure or congestion.

Even if the application keeps track of the SCTP TSN acknowledgements, that may also be lost in case of network failure or congestion.

But, perhaps we could describe the lack of TSN acknowledgement as a strong indication, but point out that it is still not 100% waterproof.

Regards,

Christer


On Sun, Apr 5, 2020 at 11:57 AM Christer Holmberg <mailto:christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
Hi Martin,

Thank You for the review and comments!

In this reply I try to address your COMMENT. I will provide my input on the DISCUSS in another repaly.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

>    The Tsvarea review cites a few other places where the 2119 language is a little
>    loose, e.g. MUSTs with vague and unenforceable criteria.

We did sort out everything, and the outcome of the review is implemented in the current version (-12) of the draft.

Is there something specific you still needs to be addressed?

Regards,

Christer

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email