Re: [MMUSIC] DTLS-SDP and JSEP Conflicts
Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com> Tue, 29 August 2017 13:08 UTC
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From: Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 09:07:59 -0400
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To: Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>
Cc: "mmusic@ietf.org" <mmusic@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] DTLS-SDP and JSEP Conflicts
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On Issue 1, Adam said: " 1. (Issue 1c) The crux of the matter: does ICE restart cause DTLS to restart? The primary rationale outlined in RFC5245 for restarting ICE is changing the destination (IP address or port) of an ongoing media stream -- which would commonly involve changing to a different physical device. While it would, in theory, be possible to transfer the TLS state associated with the connection between devices, this is rather cumbersome (and, as far as I know, not generally supported by TLS libraries). From that perspective, it is my opinion that the DTLS-SDP document is correct that an ICE restart necessitates a new DTLS connection; and I conclude that JSEP needs to change. " [BA] Agree that for consistency, it is best for an ICE restart to necessitate a new DTLS connection, since an ICE restart can result in connection to a different device (and the need for a new DTLS connection). On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 4:30 PM, Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com> wrote: > MMUSIC -- > > [I will be posting a separate message to RTCWEB directing interested > parties to discuss this issue on the MMUSIC mailing list] > > During the IESG review of draft-ietf-mmusic-dtls-sdp, EKR identified some > conflicts between the procedures in DTLS-SDP and JSEP were identified. This > note is an attempt to summarize them. I have also made an initial proposal, > for each conflict, regarding which document needs to change, in and which > way. > > Issue 1 (quoting EKR), which raises a couple of additional sub-issues: > > 1. Assuming I understand this document correctly, it conflicts with > the guidance in JSEP. Specifically, S 4 says: > > No default value is defined for the SDP 'tls-id' attribute. > Implementations that wish to use the attribute MUST explicitly > include it in SDP offers and answers. If an offer or answer does not > contain a 'tls-id' attribute (this could happen if the offerer or > answerer represents an existing implementation that has not been > updated to support the 'tls-id' attribute), unless there is another > mechanism to explicitly indicate that a new DTLS association is to be > established, a modification of one or more of the following > characteristics MUST be treated as an indication that an endpoint > wants to establish a new DTLS association: > > o DTLS setup role; or > > o fingerprint set; or > > o local transport parameters; or > > o ICE ufrag value > > This seems to say that if there is no tls-id attribute, then an ICE restart > (which necessitates a ufrag change) requires a DTLS restart. JSEP isn't > incredibly clear on this point, but 5.7.3 seems to say that tls-id > need not be present: > > * tls-id value, which MUST be set according to > [I-D.ietf-mmusic-dtls-sdp], Section 5. If this is a re-offer > and the tls-id value is different from that presently in use, > the DTLS connection is not being continued and the remote > description MUST be part of an ICE restart, together with new > ufrag and password values. If this is an answer, the tls-id > value, if present, MUST be the same as in the offer. > > I believe that the first sentence is in error, as we clearly > can't have JSEP implementations requiring that tls-id be present. > > ... > > o If the remote DTLS fingerprint has been changed or the tls-id has > changed, tear down the DTLS connection. This includes the case > when the PeerConnection state is "have-remote-pranswer". If a > DTLS connection needs to be torn down but the answer does not > indicate an ICE restart or, in the case of "have-remote-pranswer", > new ICE credentials, an error MUST be generated. If an ICE > restart is performed without a change in tls-id or fingerprint, > then the same DTLS connection is continued over the new ICE > channel. > > I think the best interpretation of this is that if tls-id is not present > (and hence unchanged) then ICE restart does not cause DTLS restart. > This is also my memory of the consensus in RTCWEB. In any case, these > two documents clearly must match. > > > My observations/recommendations: > > 1. (Issue 1a) EKR is correct that the first sentence of the bullet > from JSEP needs to be removed so as to enable interoperation with non-JSEP > implementations. > > 2. (Issue 1b) Additionally the final sentence of that bullet ("If this > is an answer, the tls-id value, if present, MUST be the same as in the > offer") conflicts with the definition of tls-id ("the offerer and answerer > generate their own local 'tls-id' attribute values, and the combination of > both values identify the DTLS association"). In this case, the DTLS-SDP > document would appear to be correct (the fact that the two parties choose > different IDs is integral to the mechanism's design), so JSEP needs to > change. > > 3. (Issue 1c) The crux of the matter: does ICE restart cause DTLS to > restart? The primary rationale outlined in RFC5245 for restarting ICE is > changing the destination (IP address or port) of an ongoing media stream -- > which would commonly involve changing to a different physical device. While > it would, in theory, be possible to transfer the TLS state associated with > the connection between devices, this is rather cumbersome (and, as far as I > know, not generally supported by TLS libraries). From that perspective, it > is my opinion that the DTLS-SDP document is correct that an ICE restart > necessitates a new DTLS connection; and I conclude that JSEP needs to > change. > > > Issue 2 (quoting EKR): > > 2. S 4 says: > > The mux category [I-D.ietf-mmusic-sdp-mux-attributes] for the 'tls- > id' attribute is 'IDENTICAL', which means that the attribute value > must be identical across all media descriptions being multiplexed > [I-D.ietf-mmusic-sdp-bundle-negotiation]. > > This is not actually what JSEP requires: > > different categories. To avoid unnecessary duplication when > bundling, attributes of category IDENTICAL or TRANSPORT MUST NOT be > repeated in bundled m= sections, repeating the guidance from > [I-D.ietf-mmusic-sdp-bundle-negotiation], Section 8.1. This includes > > I suspect this is old text. > > > (Issue 2) JSEP is aligned with draft-ietf-mmusic-sdp-bundle-negotiation-38, > while DTLS-SDP does not. This is a largely aesthetic decision (although the > JSEP/BUNDLE approach does save a tiny handful of bytes), but I think > changing one document (DTLS-SDP) makes more sense than changing two. (I > suspect the BUNDLE formulation more closely tracks consensus anyway). > > > /a > > _______________________________________________ > mmusic mailing list > mmusic@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic > >
- [MMUSIC] DTLS-SDP and JSEP Conflicts Adam Roach
- Re: [MMUSIC] DTLS-SDP and JSEP Conflicts Roman Shpount
- Re: [MMUSIC] DTLS-SDP and JSEP Conflicts Adam Roach
- Re: [MMUSIC] DTLS-SDP and JSEP Conflicts Roman Shpount
- Re: [MMUSIC] DTLS-SDP and JSEP Conflicts Adam Roach
- Re: [MMUSIC] DTLS-SDP and JSEP Conflicts Taylor Brandstetter
- Re: [MMUSIC] DTLS-SDP and JSEP Conflicts Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] DTLS-SDP and JSEP Conflicts Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] DTLS-SDP and JSEP Conflicts Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] DTLS-SDP and JSEP Conflicts Adam Roach
- Re: [MMUSIC] DTLS-SDP and JSEP Conflicts Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] DTLS-SDP and JSEP Conflicts Bernard Aboba
- Re: [MMUSIC] DTLS-SDP and JSEP Conflicts Eric Rescorla
- Re: [MMUSIC] DTLS-SDP and JSEP Conflicts Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] DTLS-SDP and JSEP Conflicts Eric Rescorla
- Re: [MMUSIC] DTLS-SDP and JSEP Conflicts Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] DTLS-SDP and JSEP Conflicts Eric Rescorla
- Re: [MMUSIC] DTLS-SDP and JSEP Conflicts Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] DTLS-SDP and JSEP Conflicts Eric Rescorla
- Re: [MMUSIC] DTLS-SDP and JSEP Conflicts Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] DTLS-SDP and JSEP Conflicts Eric Rescorla
- Re: [MMUSIC] DTLS-SDP and JSEP Conflicts Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] DTLS-SDP and JSEP Conflicts Eric Rescorla
- Re: [MMUSIC] DTLS-SDP and JSEP Conflicts Roman Shpount
- Re: [MMUSIC] DTLS-SDP and JSEP Conflicts Eric Rescorla
- Re: [MMUSIC] DTLS-SDP and JSEP Conflicts Roman Shpount
- Re: [MMUSIC] DTLS-SDP and JSEP Conflicts Eric Rescorla
- Re: [MMUSIC] DTLS-SDP and JSEP Conflicts Roman Shpount
- Re: [MMUSIC] DTLS-SDP and JSEP Conflicts Christer Holmberg