Re: [MMUSIC] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mmusic-media-path-middleboxes-06.txt
"Dan Wing" <dwing@cisco.com> Thu, 10 January 2013 23:02 UTC
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From: Dan Wing <dwing@cisco.com>
To: 'Gonzalo Salgueiro' <gsalguei@cisco.com>, 'mmusic' <mmusic@ietf.org>
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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 15:02:37 -0800
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Cc: obsidian97@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mmusic-media-path-middleboxes-06.txt
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> -----Original Message----- > From: mmusic-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mmusic-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf > Of Gonzalo Salgueiro > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 2:47 PM > To: mmusic > Cc: obsidian97@gmail.com > Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mmusic-media-path- > middleboxes-06.txt > > MMUSIC - > > I have simply updated the version of this draft to prevent expiration > because recent discussions with the chairs have confirmed that we are > ready now to progress this milestone. As part of that effort the chairs > requested we clearly define the purpose, scope, and intended audience > for the document. > > I came a bit late to the party but from my perspective this draft's > purpose is to provide guidance and best practices on mitigating the > issues middleboxes (particularly NATs and firewalls) can cause to end- > to-end SIP/SDP-signaled media streams in different architectures. The > target audience is anyone (i.e. NAT/FW vendors, protocol designers, > etc.) wanting such information ond that might benefit from the design > tips to make their network/protocol/device more middlebox friendly. > > I believe Flemming's recent comments (as an individual) masterfully > summarized the scope, purpose and target audience for this document. > Thus, I don't want to repeat (less eloquently) what I consider to be the > right approach to this document. For your convenience, here are those > comments: > > ===== > > A lot of the SIP and SDP work started out with a somewhat "purist" > Internet view of the world, where things such as middleboxes were not > considered. As other standards and industry organizations became > interested in using SIP and SDP, different architectures were defined > and some of those arcitectures did include the notion of middleboxes > (e.g. 3GPP IMS and CableLabs PacketCable). From an IETF point of view, > there was, at least initially, not a great deal of knowledge about these > architectures and what the middleboxes defined by them were doing. > Conversely, there was (is) also a concern that such middleboxes may > break end-to-end transparency and hence there was a desire to try and > alleviate that. > > To that effect, it was seen as useful to have a document that could > a) Explain what/how middleboxes might be operating in these > architectures > b) Provide guidelines as to how such middleboxes could minimize (ideally > avoid) impacting end-to-end transparency and/or how protocols could be > used to try and alleviate any impact such middleboxes might have. > > The middleboxes draft is trying to address the above as it relates to > the media path. The target audience is thus IETF participants that would > like an overview of how these middleboxes may affect SIP/SDP-signaled > media streams as well as what can be done to try and overcome that. > Similarly, the document is targeted at people involved in these "other" > architecture efforts, with a goal of making it clear how middleboxes may > affect the operation of SIP/SDP-signaled media streams and hence provide > some "design principles". This is not unlike some of the NAT work that > was done in BEHAVE. > > It could be argued that these architectures have now been around for so > long that producing the above document will not make any difference at > this point. While I have some sympathy for this, I also think we have to > recognize the importance of documenting what we know and to make that > readily available for new people that will be working in this space. > > In other words, I still believe there is value in pursuing this > document. As to whether it should be a BCP or Informational, I don't > have any strong opinions. > > ===== > > As a group can we agree on this scope and that is worthwhile to finally > complete this milestone? Feedback welcome. I am glad this document was resurrected. Can the document say SBC instead of the awkward (and inaccurate) "SIP ALG combined with MIDCOM agent"? Or is saying SBC impolitic. -d > Cheers, > > Gonzalo > > > On Jan 10, 2013, at 5:45 PM, Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: > > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > > This draft is a work item of the Multiparty Multimedia Session Control > Working Group of the IETF. > > > > Title : Analysis of Middlebox Interactions for Signaling > Protocol Communication along the Media Path > > Author(s) : Brian Stucker > > Hannes Tschofenig > > Gonzalo Salgueiro > > Filename : draft-ietf-mmusic-media-path-middleboxes-06.txt > > Pages : 22 > > Date : 2013-01-10 > > > > Abstract: > > Middleboxes are defined as any intermediary box performing functions > > apart from normal, standard functions of an IP router on the data > > path between a source host and destination host. Two such functions > > are network address translation and firewalling. > > > > When Application Layer Gateways, such as SIP entities, interact with > > NATs and firewalls, as described in the MIDCOM architecture, then > > problems may occur in the transport of media traffic when signaling > > protocol interaction takes place along the media path, as it is the > > case for recent key exchange proposals (such as DTLS-SRTP). This > > document highlights problems that may arise. Unfortunately, it is > > difficult for the end points to detect or predict problematic > > behavior and to determine whether the media path is reliably > > available for packet exchange. > > > > This document aims to summarize the various sources and effects of > > NAT and firewall control, the reasons that they exist, and possible > > means of improving their behavior to allow protocols that rely upon > > signaling along the media path to operate effectively. > > > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mmusic-media-path-middlebo > > xes > > > > There's also a htmlized version available at: > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mmusic-media-path-middleboxes-06 > > > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > > http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mmusic-media-path-middlebo > > xes-06 > > > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > I-D-Announce mailing list > > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > > > _______________________________________________ > mmusic mailing list > mmusic@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic
- [MMUSIC] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mmusic-media-path… internet-drafts
- Re: [MMUSIC] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mmusic-media-… Gonzalo Salgueiro
- Re: [MMUSIC] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mmusic-media-… Dan Wing
- Re: [MMUSIC] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mmusic-media-… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [MMUSIC] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mmusic-media-… Dan Wing
- Re: [MMUSIC] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mmusic-media-… Flemming Andreasen
- Re: [MMUSIC] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mmusic-media-… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [MMUSIC] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mmusic-media-… Flemming Andreasen