Re: [MMUSIC] draft-ietf-mmusic-msid-16 is out of sync with WebRTC 1.0

Peter Thatcher <pthatcher@google.com> Thu, 27 July 2017 19:28 UTC

Return-Path: <pthatcher@google.com>
X-Original-To: mmusic@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: mmusic@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71F15131C31 for <mmusic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 12:28:33 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.7
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3BoLlwCBGRBp for <mmusic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 12:28:31 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-oi0-x22e.google.com (mail-oi0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1171913216E for <mmusic@ietf.org>; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 12:28:31 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-oi0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id e124so155754619oig.2 for <mmusic@ietf.org>; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 12:28:31 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=7uY25eg0w/aBDGMJ8RxewstCYzFEpmaYjgerR+Dv8Sg=; b=vsavCs536gKuyllYf/0rzOjRobep8YP5S/ILYDcq/mPvRNEmnVJdSqH7/1pzaFCDMr Y/iod0+43K3zMsSZyL4qYwtiVsHRmb5M77sqUxdY3/h7tUPzH/yLo8A0R9g3vBQeIymS XZ1wEQeTkSZm74Fu2puybpYjNis8dlrPrPba3Z5fgNgrT7eNjTQwYwrNkZbm+nyzkZLS WVLNXDXo6SE+wmZqLEyf19fs2mQPoZSAqEacpgqqdbxsUv0pYWIKIwTB6QNvMNw8LA5c LD4EkgHnBRYSwhRjtQlQo9/Lo131ubpblIUhCz2F1qm1/KZ+dFp/sGlnzUzLX/j6zG4t +tKA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=7uY25eg0w/aBDGMJ8RxewstCYzFEpmaYjgerR+Dv8Sg=; b=srF7JswziNUkf9R61P7iVM2u9Xh7GbdX4l0A+9OgtRJOJQadUYkgP2fFC3ShUFijcB XJJVy2lRFFWpijOK3mDjbkSVsjOeA7WVh5KsZaHV3UxqJ/3GJFPthcUDIFwrKnRz8Ksy bmDJKeukOWGb1WDAx6oiXtTMC+yAMGxwQ4R5IKy+RwqWu3AOXDaH0p3ZlUeiQecDXbu+ sVYeh66MVJC6lvs50eBtl9bojbwYMx0S7sDhYxgfg2WUyVLOjX5JuJ6FCq04RudKP6it v9kVdwkBOJni+oS/fdSpzILGY7Jg3iaDt8cyDLucyvurXepnoyc+3hJux4sNp36NIUhi al4g==
X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw110+Bh3cSg8TrGnCM+YamM5RZ7DFfuc+zhFe+nOHUu/3NMpM0Jlh K6NYblS7VX5VhpJLsSOY+uFA7DVNZiNX
X-Received: by 10.202.230.212 with SMTP id d203mr5813639oih.59.1501183710272; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 12:28:30 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CAK35n0ZYsjMTGGajpHuzg2_ARvG_V=PMbAPVgWZ9gHu_SMU7BA@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAK35n0ZYsjMTGGajpHuzg2_ARvG_V=PMbAPVgWZ9gHu_SMU7BA@mail.gmail.com>
From: Peter Thatcher <pthatcher@google.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2017 19:28:18 +0000
Message-ID: <CAJrXDUGv_DTxjaRRdtxY0EBaLB0OoCPQToHj=Hy9=0p6SjVN8Q@mail.gmail.com>
To: Taylor Brandstetter <deadbeef@google.com>, mmusic WG <mmusic@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1141aedecb859c05555191f9"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mmusic/Yg-oQyNXzY4GsKEgQXuTYGkard0>
Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] draft-ietf-mmusic-msid-16 is out of sync with WebRTC 1.0
X-BeenThere: mmusic@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multiparty Multimedia Session Control Working Group <mmusic.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/mmusic>, <mailto:mmusic-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/mmusic/>
List-Post: <mailto:mmusic@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:mmusic-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic>, <mailto:mmusic-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2017 19:28:33 -0000

So is the summary that you propose we remove the track ID from the MSID
attribute?

If so, I'm in favor.

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 6:42 PM Taylor Brandstetter <deadbeef@google.com>
wrote:

> In the current state of WebRTC 1.0, track IDs are not guaranteed to be
> symmetrical between the sending and receiving PeerConnection. This is
> because "addTrack" not only creates an RtpSender, but a whole
> RtpTransceiver, which has an RtpReceiver, which has a MediaStreamTrack with
> a generated ID. So if "addTrack" is called, and a remote description is set
> later, it's the MID that correlates the "m=" section with the track, not
> the track ID, and the track ID in SDP is effectively ignored.
>
> This is all related to the "early media" functionality, and is explained
> further in a blog post by Jan-Ivar; see the "Correlate by transceiver.mid"
> section: https://blog.mozilla.org/webrtc/the-evolution-of-webrtc/
>
> So, the question became "why signal track IDs at all?" This was brought up
> in a May virtual interim (
> https://www.w3.org/2011/04/webrtc/wiki/May_2_2017), and we decided to
> investigate removing them. To my knowledge this topic hasn't been brought
> up on this mailing list yet.
>
> Is this something still worth considering, or is it too late? "a=msid"
> would switch to only containing the stream ID, not the track ID.
> Implementers would presumably have a transitional period where they support
> parsing both forms of "a=msid", after which they start generating the new
> format, as we've done for other things.
>
> The benefits are that the SDP would be slightly smaller, and the
> complexity of the standards could be slightly reduced. The downside is that
> more applications that rely on track IDs would need to be updated (though
> many will need to be updated anyway).
>
> Regardless of the outcome of this decision, "mmusic-msid" really ought to
> be updated before publication. It's been out of sync with WebRTC 1.0 for
> about a year; here's the first editor's draft that broke the track ID
> symmetry: https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-pc/archives/20160722/webrtc.html
> _______________________________________________
> mmusic mailing list
> mmusic@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic
>